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First ever Optic selection, new SCAR 17

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SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 11:44
Originally posted by gulf1263 gulf1263 wrote:

Check Lightfighter or even better talk to someone who runs one.
I run one and know others who do, I have also talked to an individual in the French Army (an officer in their "Marine" which is their overseas intervention force).
The US gov is/was attempting to field not only the SCAR 17 but also the SCAR 20 and the problems have been reported.
If you don't believe me, take your own SCAR 17 and shot it with various optics and see how they work...that would make YOU an expert...especially when you had to send them in for repair.
I know this is a new concept for the internet...someone with actual experience reporting on a problem.
My LaRue PredtAR doesn't break glass nor does my brothers AR-10 or a friends LMT.
I am trying to help others in not making the same mistakes I did, my intent is not to rustle feathers or gore ox's but to report on my experience and the experiences of others.
Having two high end scopes and one mid value scope break is not coincidence.
Like I said, if you don't believe me, get your own SCAR 17, shot it with your chosen glass and then report back on the results.
Thanks
Art

Simply asked for a link, never implied you were making chit up.  Just wanted to read more on it as I have looked at the scar 17 as a potential purchase.  Chill out
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Khaybes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 13:41
Another Optic to consider, the new Kahles K16i. 

This optic made it's debut in the 3-Gun community and so far has had a great run. Here is a short review from one of our Team shooters regarding the K16i. Let me know if you would like some info from the person who did the review, I would be more than happy to put you in touch with him.

Enjoy:

Just when I thought I had found the answer to the ultimate 3-Gun optics question, someone has to come along and raise the bar yet again. I guess it really should be no surprise that it would come from the oldest optics manufacturer on the planet. So when I received my Kahles K16i a few weeks ago, needless to say, I was a little skeptical. After running a Swarovski Z6i for the past 4 months, I didn
't think it could get any better. I quickly stood corrected.


First impressions when I opened the box and removed the scope, were that it didn't look like anything special. A basic, short and compact, low power variable design with that "You've seen one, you've seen them all" kinda look. But in this case, looks were rather deceiving. Upon one of the first things to capture my attention was the built in throw lever on the power zoom ring. No need waiting around a couple months for someone to develop one-just a little value engineering. Turning the power zoom ring was smooth and easy yet had a robust feel when rotating quickly from lock to lock. Looking through the scope I quickly realized why Kahles has been in business for so long. The resolution and clarity were nothing short of superb. Obviously some of the finest in European glass with no visible edge distortion and excellent color rendition to provide a bright and clear image. As I turned the magnification up and down there wasn't even a hint of distortion as the second focal plane reticle maintained it's focus. THEN came the good part; I turned on the illumination. To say "I saw the light" would be an understatement. Daytime illumination that we all desire and then some. The small, crisp, red, digital dot was brighter than I would ever need it to be. When I say small, 2.5 cm at 100 m is pretty small but the brightness more than makes up for that. At this point I was ready to mount this bad boy up and get to the range.



As I swapped scopes out on my Black Rain Ord/Fallout-15, I noticed how much lighter the K16i was, compared to the Z6i that I was replacing. Not tremendously lighter, but definitely noteworthy. As a result, that peaked my curiosity so I grabbed my Meopta K-dot for an alternate comparison, and it too was a bit heavier than the K16i. Once the scope was mounted, getting it zeroed was cake. The adjustment knobs were easy to turn and had very precise and positive clicks. Once again a very solid and robust feel. The scope tracked accurately as one would expect from such a quality optic. Once my preferred zero was established, zeroing the turrets required a tool or coin but took only seconds. For peace of mind, I dialed up the turrets a few times and returned to zero to ensure repeatability. On many scopes, repeatability may be a weak spot; not with the K16i. So Zero and peace of mind established……..time for some fun.



The G4b reticle was a fairly basic semi BDC design. A thin cross hair with three subtended hold over lines below it. This design seems better suited for your average hunter but I have been informed by Ken Pratt of Khaybes/Kahles that other reticles are available for the K16i. Even a number of them with an illuminated circle-dot reticle with multiple holdover marks. He also said this scope has a wider field of view than any other 1-6x scope on the market. Shooting at steel from 100 yards out to 500 yards I can certainly attest to that since being spoiled by the wide field of view that the Z6i was known for. Notice I said “Was” known for. With an easily identifiable 3-4’ additional field of view in all directions, I will confirm Ken’s claims as true. The field of view on 1x was truly amazing. Acquiring and transitioning between steel target arrays was quick and the crystal clear clarity and superb resolution made it even easier. As I was doing some close in work, it almost seemed as if I was just looking through a glass tube with a red dot in it. I could hardly see the edges of the scope tube.



The Kahles K16i will be a game changer in the world of 3-Gun and Tactical Rifle Competition for sure. It is not often that I credit my equipment for providing me a competitive advantage, the Kahles K16i is one such piece of gear that I feel will give me an edge.


Regards,
Ken
Ken Pratt
US Army Ret.
Owner

Khaybes LLC
2170 Carney Dr.
Suite F
Orofino, ID 83544
(208) 476-0600
kpratt@khaybes.com
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gulf1263 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gulf1263 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 15:03
FYI, I broke the Swaro Z6 1-6 scope, the Kahles is very similar and might also break, my Zeiss Victory 1.5-6 broke and my Weaver Tactical 3-15 broke...it was not the reticle (?) but the something else, maybe the springs that hold the lens, zero shifts.
Once I began trying to figure out what was causing the problem I became aware that the recoil impulse moves forward sharply for a very short period, then back much more smoothly.
It may be the sharp forward part of the impulse that causes the problem, the recoil impulse is very smooth when moving backward and makes the rifle easy to shoot and control, smoother than the LaRue PredtAR.
Of the three other people that I know with the guns, they all are using Nightforce optics and have had no problems holding zero, no zero shifts.
For most applications I wouldn't run a Nightforce but this is one that I would recommend it for.
Back to the Kahles, if it is as good or better than the Swaro, then it is a great scope...just don't put it on a SCAR 17.
Thanks
Art
Good day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2012 at 17:47
Originally posted by shagster shagster wrote:

Perhaps these will help:

http://fnforum.net/forums/scar-accessories-scopes-mods/23010-optics-your-scar-16-17-a.html

http://fnforum.net/forums/scar-accessories-scopes-mods/28894-optics-just-didnt-work-out.html

and in regard to optics breaking on the SCAR 17:

http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-17s/31290-scar-heavy-eats-optics.html




Interesting links. Thanks for posting them Shagter and welcome to OT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 05:15
Of course the $64,000 question pertinent to many of the suggestions above is:

Has anybody (including the French Army) been breaking SS HD's on these rifles with a statistically meaningful frequency?  If not, there's really no basis from which to suggest they won't hold up given the specs to which they are built.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gulf1263 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2012 at 15:58
I would call SWFA and check with them, their SS glass is pretty stout.
Super Sniper glass could be a viable substitute for Nightforce...after my unsuccessful experiments I will let others try.
I am interested in the SS 1-6, looks like I could use it on my LaRue.
If it holds up the SS 1-6 would be a very viable step up form the NF 1-4.
Hope springs eternal.
I might be looking at a Stoner M-110A, at least I know that it won't eat glass.
The new Colt 901 is supposed to be nice but it is heavy, over nine pounds.
Anyway, any time I can come up with an excuse to buy a new gun and new glass is good thing.
Thanks
Art
Good day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lightwind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2012 at 13:03
I'm not sure where all of this information on broken scopes is coming from on the SCAR, but I have two SCAR-17s and have a Swarovski Z-5 mounted on one and an aimpoint mounted on the other.   I have been shooting both for two years without a problem.   I just got on of Jon's new 45 degree top mounts and have mounted a SIG red dot on the Swarovski and that seems to be doing fine also.   I've been meaning to get a picture up - but haven't gotten around to it.    Maybe those of you who are having problems with your scopes could mention your mounts.   I think the mounts that Jon produces really hold the optics to the rail.   If you are using lesser mounts that can always be a problem.   What mounts are you using?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gulf1263 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2012 at 17:39
Hi Lightwind, you are a lucky person!
The SCAR 20 program is running  behind because of a variety of problems, broken glass is one of them.
Issued SCAR 17's have been having this problem for sometime, Lightfighter has thread on the SCAR 20 that also addresses the problems with the SCAR 17.
My personal experience and the experience of others has been different than yours.
I wonder if the Z-5 has different construction than the Z-6i?
Lucky for me that Swaro has the best customer service in the industry that I have used..they agreed to repair for free, Zeiss also agreed to repair but will take awhile.
Swaro may have a different set of springs for the Z-6i that will solve the problem, it is a awesome optic and perfect for the SCAR 17 (can't really afford a Leupold 1-8).
What surprised me were the problems with the ACOG's and Aimpoint's.
Soviets had similar problems with the early SVD's, German radicals operating Lebanon tried using Aus Jenna 8x scopes, we recovered several with problems...they wouldn't hold zero.
I am away form my SCAR 17 for awhile so won't have the ability to test the Z6i rebuild.
After using the LaRue mounts I may switch over from the Nightforce...having to retorque them is apain.
Thanks
Art
Good day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2012 at 20:22
This will help to torque what you need.
Borka Tools MG7 Multi Torque Driver Kit
Stock # - BORMG7
  • 2 7/8" long Autolock/magnetic bit holder (primary driver spindle)
  • 2" long bit holder (Autolock extension or secondary driver spindle)
  • 1/4" hex (male) drive to 1/4" square (male) drive adapter
  • 1/4" square (female) drive to 3/8" square (male) drive adapter
  • Compact 1/4" hex ratchet wrench
  • 1/2" hex socket with 1/4" square drive
  • Total of 29 bits (1/4" hex, S2 steel) in 2 compact bit organizers:
    • Hex, Inch: 5/64", 3/32", 7/64", 1/8", 9/64", 5/32", 3/16"
    • Hex, Metric: 2 mm, 2.5 mm, 3 mm, 4 mm, 5 mm
    • Torx: T-10, T-15, T-20, T25, T27, T-30
    • Slotted: 1/8", 5/32", 3/16", 7/32", 1/4", 9/32", 5/16"
    • Phillips: #1, #2
    • Pozi: #1, #2
  • 3 1/2" long custom 3/16" hex bit for AICS legacy stock action screws
$134.95 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blaster3094 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2012 at 21:00
Originally posted by gulf1263 gulf1263 wrote:

I would call SWFA and check with them, their SS glass is pretty stout.
Super Sniper glass could be a viable substitute for Nightforce...after my unsuccessful experiments I will let others try.
I am interested in the SS 1-6, looks like I could use it on my LaRue.
If it holds up the SS 1-6 would be a very viable step up form the NF 1-4.

The SS 1-6x has peaked my interest as well.

I have to say that all this talk about the SCAR 17 damaging optics has me concerned.

If I were to decide on a SS 1-4x or a SS 1-6x what type of mount would be best.

I have seen many different styles of mounts. Offset, no offset, with built in MOA, different heights. What is the proper eye relief, and height above the rail for one of the SS scopes above.

Thanks, this is all new to me.


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lightwind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2012 at 21:33
I have no idea why you are having the problems you are.   I intend to mount my SS 1-6X25 on the one with my Aimpoint as soon as it comes in.   That will give me another scope to try out.   Prior to running the Swarovski Z5 (3.5-18X50) I had a Vortex on that SCAR 17s.   Never a problem with that one either.   Does anyone on the forum know, first hand, of anyone else eating scopes on their SCAR-H?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 33shooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2012 at 07:13
My friend has a SCAR 17 and its a really nice gun. The best upgrade he's done was the Giesselle trigger. He currently has a NF 1-4 on it and it works well. It has a couple thousand through the gun and shoots well. The gun could benifit from a little more magnification though. I'd recommend the Leupold MK6 1-6 or the Vortex Razor HD II 1-6x. Both are actually available and have great warranties. The SS 1-6 has been "on order" for well over 6 months and they're still not around. So, availability could be a concern.

If price were no object, a CQBSS or even a USO 1-8 would be a good fit too. The Leupold MK6 would be my choice having spent some time with the gun. That's a great optic, the Vortex would be a close second.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shagster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2012 at 09:36
I have a SCAR 17 and I am waiting on the SWFA 1-6x. I also have ADM Delta mount on the sitting on the shelf, awaiting the SWFA 1-6 arrival. 
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