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mil/mil vs mil/moa |
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kgriff
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/28/2012 Location: Dallas Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: October/28/2012 at 20:02 |
I'm interested in the Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24X50. I have read good reviews. I'm leaning that way because of the mil retical and mil turrets as compared to others like leuopold who have the mil/moa set up. I currently use a mil retical in a trijicon 3X9 and like it. I want to reach out farther but I'm not sure if the mil/mil combo should be the selling point. I would appreciate your views on the subject.
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kgriff
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
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The reticle and turrets matching is the only way to go! Being able to correct fire without doing any math is much simpler than converting mils to minutes. Having a FFP scope makes this even easier, as you won't have to remember what power your scope is on.
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
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And welcome to the OT!
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Billyburl's comments are right on. mil/mil or moa/moa, you really want them to be the same. I personally prefer moa/moa, but have always had a harder time finding that construction. Bushnell Elite is very good scope and in data I have been able to compile and turn into information, it compares quite favorably with the "Alpha" scopes. Welcome to the OT. |
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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kgriff
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/28/2012 Location: Dallas Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Thanks for the info. And I agree the FFP was something else about the Bushnell I liked. I'm just getting into longer distance shooting so I'm trying to get as much info as I can to help out.
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kgriff
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kgriff
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/28/2012 Location: Dallas Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Glad to hear you are seeing good stuff on the Elite Tac. Excuse my ignorance, but I am a newbie, What are the "Alpha scopes"?
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kgriff
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
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http://swfa.com/Premier-Heritage-3-15x50-Tactical-34mm-Riflescope-P12353.aspx
These are examples of "Alpha" tactical rifle scopes. You could also, add USO to that list. Right below those are Night Force, and Vortex's Razor, the SS 5-20, Lueppy's, and some say IOR.
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Old Soldier
Optics GrassHopper Joined: June/01/2012 Location: Out West Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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I prefer the simple Mil reticle with MOA windage and Range elevation for a daylight tactical scope. For low light I prefer the German No.1 reticle with MOA or MIL windage and Range Elevation.
I am however not a great fan of milliradian reticles as too many shooters try to use them for range-finding.
OS
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polarcow
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/07/2005 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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I love the mil/mil scopes also. But if you are going to use it for range-finding...practice is the key. A small error when you range with mils with throw you off big time.
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Chrome223
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/26/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Yeah, its sort of hilarious that the Trijicon web site page about 'how to use a mil-dot starts with a unit-conversion table (I guess we're supposed to memorize that?) and then continues to a lengthy complicated lecture on the range estimation of groundhogs. Thanks, but I'll stick with my mil/mil scope (or moa/moa if you prefer)
That said, I've also got a cheaper moa/mil-dot on a range-toy, and I'm not afraid to admit it.
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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The achilles heel of rangefinding with a reticle is that the more you actually need to know the range the harder it gets to gauge how much of the object is being subtended (spanned) by the reticle. Even if you know the size of the object, you have atmospherics (mirage, amount of light, etc.), glass quality, and stability as factors in measuring.
What is great and handy about having matching reticle/turrets is how easy it is to adjust the scope when zeroing or compensating for wind on a follow-up shot. I won't criticize anyone who has already figured out the "old school" ways of using a Mil reticle with MOA turrets. But if you are new to target scopes or are willing to learn new tricks, make 'em match.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Phasers would solve all the problems...
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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boats
Optics GrassHopper Joined: June/05/2011 Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Scope with both is like a ruler with inch one side metric the other. Lot easier to go all metric or all inch don't worry about converting. Most Americans can figure out MOA easier. We are used to distances in yards sizes of targets in feet, group size in inches etc.
If I was going Mil I would do everything else in metric too. distances, sizes, bullet drop, everything. Boats
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Boats
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
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mils and MOA have nothing to do with linear measurement. Both are ways of measuring angles, all similarities to linear distances is coincidental.
Mils has nothing to do with the metric system. A mil is simply 1/1000 of anything...
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Gerry Atric
Optics Journeyman Joined: April/21/2011 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 340 |
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Correct, and the use of mils is very logical as the rest of the metric system..................
Gerry Atric
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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Most Americans can work with decimals too: 100 cents = 10 dimes = 1 dollar. Milliradians work well with metric because they are both base 10 so the math is easier.
I do try to range things once in a while, but unless it's your job, there are more practical things to work on. I do almost all my ranging with an LRF and have memorized my drop tables so I can quickly dial in the number of mils needed to get on target. The drop tables have been verified using real range dope and are checked against my ballistics calculator.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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The biggest problem IMO with using a reticle to range something is you have to know the exact size of the object you are ranging to get a good measurement. That can be difficult to figure out.
But that being said, a lot of people have successfully done it over the years. But I much prefer to use my range finder, it gives me exact distances then I just have to dial in my scope. |
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Old Soldier
Optics GrassHopper Joined: June/01/2012 Location: Out West Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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The problem with using mil to measure angles is that you have to first determine how many mils make a circle. The US uses a 6400 mil circle while the Russians have a 6000 mil circle. I like a mil scale for reference/corrections but abhor it for range estimation. It should be self-evident but many forget that you cannot use a mil relation formula for anything that grows...
OS
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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But this number really doesn't matter other than to ensure users of any decent scope that when they do calculations involving mils their results won't include any errors based on the approximations mentioned.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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Jon A
Optics Journeyman Joined: March/14/2008 Location: Everett, WA Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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Actually, if I had to put money on it, I'd bet fewer than 1% of those with mil reticles actually ever "range" a distant target with the reticle for an important shot. If you take out competition shooters who only do it because that's the rules of whatever stage they're shooting (or it's set up specifically to fool LRF's) that number probably is cut in half. There are many other uses for a reticle that are far more widely used. So the choice is one of personal preference, nothing more. Personally, memorizing wind holds in nice single-digit Mil decimals is dramatically easier than memorizing MOA fractions. For me, anyway. If you're going to spot shots for somebody or want somebody to spot them for you, whatever unit is most prevalent among the group you're shooting with most often is much more important than what sort of linear unit conversions you may or may not be able to do in your head. |
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