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Help with an AR 15 for mid range shooting |
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MBG
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/10/2012 Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Posted: September/10/2012 at 10:40 |
Great forum.
I've been reading for a while trying to educate myself, but it seems like every step up I take doing that just presents more options. So I figure it's time to just ask for help...
I have an AR with an Aimpoint. Love it for what it does, but I'd like to get out to the longer ranges that my 16" rifle is capable of. I'm not looking for anything more precise than 8x11 paper/steel sized targets... just looking to make contact.
I would like to stay light and small, but I know that normally comes with a hefty price tag. I would really also prefer mill/mill. I would like to stay around $400 for the scope and plan on getting a nice ($200ish) mount for it.
I don't hunt. I basically want this scope for taking a long range carbine classes and for the regular "sniper challenges" at a local range. The classes are from 100-700 yards, and the challenges are from 500 and in at known and unknown distances.
My big delima at the moment seems to be between variable and fixed, and is less mag better than more (4-6x vs 10-14x)? The scope will be going in front of contacts on medium sharp mid 40 year old eyes.
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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I know this is a little outside your price range, but your best bet is this scope:
I've got one set up for my light carbine (which turned out to be more accurate than I expected) in a Bobro mount and it works exceedingly well. ILya
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MBG
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/10/2012 Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Thanks Ilya. That's one of the scopes I keep looking. Like everything about it, the mill/mill, FFP, reputation, etc.
Does it "fit" well on the AR platform? Could you use it not on a pod or bench rest? I'm also looking at the fixed 6x and 10x SS. Would the 3X9 still seem to be a more workable option for my needs? Which Bobro mount are you using?
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Just tossing out a plug for my for sale item.
But you could also go with this if you are considering the 1-4x. It has the bobro mount with it and would end up costing you a little less than the 3-9x with the bobro. http://www.opticstalk.com/swfa-ss-14x_topic33921.html |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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I think having variable magnification is pretty useful on an AR. Both 6x and 10x SS scopes will work fine, but 3-9x42 is more versatile. It comes down to money. If you can stretch your budget a bit, go for the variable. Otherwise, for $300 get a fixed power. ILya
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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Welcome to Optics Talk.
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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MBG
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/10/2012 Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Hmmmm... what kind of ranges can be expected with your 1-4x?
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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For what you have stated your uses, I think a 1-4x would work well. The 3-9x would work well also, but it is a bigger scope.
I have shot at steel out to 870 yards with that scope and was able to make consistent hits. If most of my use was going to be 400 to 500 yards plus I would want the 3-9x. But if it was mostly 200 to 300 and under with occasionally going longer range the 1-4x would be my choice. I suppose that is why I have two of the SS 1-4xs. I am just selling this one because I sold the rifle I had it on and now I have an extra scope. So if it is a dedicated longer range rifle get the 3-9x, but otherwise, I think the 1-4x is a better fit. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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stickbow46
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/07/2009 Location: Benton, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4678 |
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Welcome to the OT MBG!
You are already used to shooting with both eyes open with the Aimpoint so I would think you are getting the best of both worlds with the 1-4x,Distance & Familiarity. |
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excess650
Optics Apprentice Joined: July/31/2012 Location: out there Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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A friend of mine put one of these on his AR and he seems pretty pleased with it. It isn't exactly small and light, but should be a good fit for his application. Neither is Mil/Mil, but the reticles "do the driving" out to 600.
http://swfa.com/Nikon-2-8x32-M223-Riflescope-Kit-P47974.aspx Sill not exactly compact, but would be worth looking into: http://swfa.com/Burris-15-6x40-MTAC-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P53421.aspx More compact and Mil/Mil, only 4x magnification, but illuminated as well : http://swfa.com/Vortex-1-4x24-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44569.aspx I can't vouch for this scope, but it is Mil/Mil, relatively compact, illuminated, and less $ and limited lifetime warranty http://swfa.com/Falcon-Menace-15-5x30-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P47586.aspx another with limited lifetime warranty but "illuminated tactical ballistic X reticle and MOA adjustments http://swfa.com/Weaver-15-6x32-Kaspa-Extreme-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51367.aspx I have a SWFA SS in 6x42 and have shot it to 1000 yards. I could see 30cal bullet splashes in dry dirt at that distance, so 6x is enough for 700 yards with good glass. Its not a small scope, and the SS 3-9x42 is similar in size, so it comes down to what is more important to your shooting. |
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MBG
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/10/2012 Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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I got a chance to handle a 1-4x (Leupold) on an AR. I really wanted to like it because Supertool has a good deal on his SS 1-4x. The thinking was to get some mid range mag and use it to replace my Aimpoint for CQB letting me sell the AP and be back down close to my ideal budget. I liked the 1-4x a lot with one eye closed, but I couldn't get a comfortable/repeatable picture on 1x with both eyes open. My AP is set as far up on the upper receiver as it will go (with an offset mount) and my stock is extended as far back as it will go. Getting in that 3.75" eye relief box was just too big of a change for me at CQB distances.
For that reason, I'm back to the 3-9x42 or fixed options in the SS line and just use it for dedicated mid-long outings.
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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The leupold? What model? Not sure but dont' think they are a true 1X where you can leave your left eye open. With the SS you can, comfortably.
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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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excess650
Optics Apprentice Joined: July/31/2012 Location: out there Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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I LIKE compact, low magnification variables and have several. Unlike your AP, mine are located in "normal scope position" with the scope's eye relief and scope height as perfect as possible for natural pointing of the rifle. My Burris Euro Diamond 1-4x works best of my scopes for this purpose due to its comfortable eye box, 30mm tube, German #4 CH and 1x. My Leupold VX-II 1-4 doesn't work quite as well(1" duplex), and the others are 1.5x at lowest magnification, but still work OK in that I shoot with my dominant eye.
You could try to adjust by actually shooting a 1-4x for a while. If that doesn't work for you, or you've simply decided against that idea, just buy a SWFA 6xSS and be done with it. You WILL LOVE IT! |
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
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And the SS will have a much bolder reticle than anything Luepold offers.
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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I would not draw any conclusion on the performance of the SS 1-4x24 based on any 1-4x Leupold. Aside from a radically different scope design, Leupold also does not make any 1-4x scopes. The actual magnification of the VX-2 1-4x20, for example, is 1.4-4x. VX-R 1.25-4x20 is actually 1.5-4x. The only one I can think of that actually goes dow to true 1x is the VX-6 1-6x24. ILya
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MBG
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/10/2012 Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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It was this Leupold model...
The differences between that and the SS 1-4x are that noticeable? Wow.
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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yes, you can see 1.25X is not the same as 1X. Try wearing a pair of reading glass at .25X you'll see what we are talking about. The SS is true 1X like your Aimpoint.
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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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A less expensive alternative might be a Zeiss Conquest w/Z600 reticle. Here's one on the sample list: http://www.samplelist.com/-P56203.aspx |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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MBG-
Pardon me for not welcoming you to the forum, earlier- WELCOME. If you're looking at 1-4, I also have one of these and it's ok. It ain't an SS, but it gets the job done. http://swfa.com/Optisan-1-4x24-Mamba-EAR30-Mount-Combo-P51887.aspx |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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