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Lost zero after 90 shots--normal?

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    Posted: July/11/2012 at 00:16
Just bought a SS 1-4x24. I like it but it has already lost zero on me after 90 rounds. Is this normal? Did I do something wrong? Here's the story:

  1. Mounted scope with Burris PEPR QD on my LMT Defender M4 carbine.
  2. Zeroed the scope at 100yd using 5.56 XM193 ammo. I unscrew the turret caps and set them on zero. Tighten the turret caps back down.
  3. Scope works fine. I fire exactly 62 rounds.
  4. Get home and notice my scope has "slid" forward about an inch! I chalk this up to my inexperience mounting scopes. I remount it with more torque on the rings.
  5. Go back out 3 days later and fire 20 more rounds (82 total). No problems. Scope is not moving in the rings. Hit my target each time.
  6. Go another 10 rounds (92 total) and I start missing my target, a steel gong 7wx11h".
  7. It takes me another 30 rounds (122 total) to figure out I'm missing left. I compensate about 1 to 1.5 mil right using the reticle and start hitting the target again. Vertical zero seems to be fine.
  8. Cease fire and I have to leave. Don't get a chance to adjust the R-L turret.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proimion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 00:19
Sorry--forgot to add it is a new scope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 08:06
How much torque did u put on the ring caps?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 08:06
over-torqued rings? Too tight can also be bad...affecting scope internals.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 08:10
Sounds to me like a mount issue, what are you using to confirm proper torque on the rings?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 08:57
Had similar issue with a Viper PST 1-4x scope also in a PEPR mount.  Use the poor man's torque method of tightening the screws with the supplied allen wrench.  Groups were inconsistent despite using exactly the same ammo/lot.
 
Problem disappeared once I used a torque driver to get the proper specs on the rings (18 in/lbs) and base (65 in/lbs).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 09:18
Due to the internal mechanics of a scope it is very highly unlikely that the scope would cause you to miss left. It would be more erratic than just shooting left if the scope was damaged or broke. I would say go back and check the mount and set it to all of the proper torque settings and I would be willing to bet the issue will be solved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proimion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 11:33
Like Marine24, I used the included allen wrench, so I can't say how much torque is on the rings. I'll get me a proper tool and report back on what happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 11:42
It should only be 15 in-lbs.  That is very little torque.  You can easily do that much with a screwdriver based tool and your thumb and index finger.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RotoReuter_DM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 12:03
Did you use some loctite?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 14:34
I think the mount is the most likely suspect.  I prefer the La Rue  mount but  the BOBRO or Badger Ordnance and the Aadland are also a very strong mounts. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castlebravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 01:13
Originally posted by proimion proimion wrote:

Like Marine24, I used the included allen wrench, so I can't say how much torque is on the rings. I'll get me a proper tool and report back on what happens.



For the uninformed what constitutes a proper tool here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 03:26
The proper tool is a wrench that sets exact torque, there are many options. The "short arm vs long arm" method assums many things - and can result in significant deviation from spec torques.

I have the ame scope on an 11" upper, never a problem.

I am a fan of AD and Aadmount mounts. Many assume that simialr design for less money is a win-win, but sometims more expensive mounts are more expensive for a reason. ** i am NOT recommending a new mount as a first step, many run that mount with success.

Start with the cheapest, easiest fix, go from there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 04:07
Like Rancid said, a torque wrench that can set torque in inch/lbs is what you need for mounting scope bases, rings, tightening action screws and a number of other maintenance tasks.  These are valuable tools even for routine maintenance on your weapon
 
This is different from the one I use on my 65 Impala with sets torque in foot/lbs.
 
Lot of different options ranging from traditional long handle torque wrenches, preset torque drivers, torque screw drivers...etc.
 
I have a Weaver gunsmithing torque wrench plus a conventional bar style torque wrench.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castlebravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 11:07
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

The proper tool is a wrench that sets exact torque, there are many options. The "short arm vs long arm" method assums many things - and can result in significant deviation from spec torques.


Any specific tool recommendations?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 11:43
Originally posted by castlebravo castlebravo wrote:

Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

The proper tool is a wrench that sets exact torque, there are many options. The "short arm vs long arm" method assums many things - and can result in significant deviation from spec torques.


Any specific tool recommendations?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/718023/wheeler-engineering-fat-firearm-accurizing-torque-torque-wrench-screwdriver
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 12:51
Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

Originally posted by castlebravo castlebravo wrote:

Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

The proper tool is a wrench that sets exact torque, there are many options. The "short arm vs long arm" method assums many things - and can result in significant deviation from spec torques.


Any specific tool recommendations?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/718023/wheeler-engineering-fat-firearm-accurizing-torque-torque-wrench-screwdriver


A good choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 19:13
http://swfa.com/Borka-Tools-MG3-Multi-Torque-Driver-Kit-P51012.aspx
 This is a much better tool than the wheeler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 20:31
These work really well and accept any 1/4"bit. Usually inexpensive on auction sites.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proimion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2012 at 17:35
Here's an update from the OP. I got a Wheeler FAT wrench and remounted the scope using 15 in/lb of torque on the rings. I hope to get a chance to get back out to the range soon and see what happens.
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