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Sighting in a Mil/Mil Scope

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Old Soldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Soldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 16:24
Since most guys start with a 100yd zero, measuring the adjustment makes sense if they have a scope with MOA adjustments vs MIL. Of course they could also convert the mil error to MOA and then make the adjustment but that gets tricky with something like 3.375 X 1.5 mils =  5.062 MOA. Easier to measure the target.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 17:01
Originally posted by sscoyote sscoyote wrote:

I then acquired the steel tgt. at 50 yds. through the optic, and shot once. I measured it with the reticle and it appeared to be 15 MOA high and left. With the 1/2 MOA finger-adjustable turret, i cranked in 30 clicks down and right. There were 4-1/2" bolts holding the plate onto the frame, and i aimed at one of them and hit it on the next shot. 


This worked? I thought that if you had 1/2MOA adjustments that is what it is a 100yds. And at 50yds each click would be 1/4 and not 1/2.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 17:19
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by sscoyote sscoyote wrote:

I then acquired the steel tgt. at 50 yds. through the optic, and shot once. I measured it with the reticle and it appeared to be 15 MOA high and left. With the 1/2 MOA finger-adjustable turret, i cranked in 30 clicks down and right. There were 4-1/2" bolts holding the plate onto the frame, and i aimed at one of them and hit it on the next shot. 


This worked? I thought that if you had 1/2MOA adjustments that is what it is a 100yds. And at 50yds each click would be 1/4 and not 1/2.

MOA stands for minute of angle.  It is independent of distance.

1/2 MOA at 100 yards is ~0.5 inch
1/2 MOA at 50 yards is ~ 0.25 inch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 18:07
My bad, I was thinking 15 inches and not 15 MOA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 16:13
So using this method, you can develop your own dope for known ranges.  At a known distance, use the method described above to establish your zero for the range desired (i.e. 200 meters).  Move to the next known distance (say 300 meters), fire your group, make the necessary adjustments and you have the number of clicks you need to come up for that particular distance.  Continue the process until you've filled out your data book for the ranges you are interested in.  In the end, you'll have the clicks necessary for the known ranges and the holdover for that particular load/ammo lot.
 
Is my understanding/conclusions correct?
 
I'm coming from a hunting background where maximum point blank range is more of a factor or shooting with iron sights.  Conceptually, the practice adjusting your POA based on the spot of a well fired round with iron sights helps me understand this concept.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 16:21
That is correct.  That is really the only way you can do it.  You can use ballistic calcs to get close, but shooting is the only way to get real dope.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2012 at 16:41
Lot more efficient method than checking a drop chart from a manufacturer, which is typically listed in inches, doing the math to convert to mil or moa clicks,  making the adjustments to the scope, firing a group and then making adjustments again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpcollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2012 at 19:05
I do something similar but in reverse when mounting a regular scope after getting it close with my Zero Point. I aim at the bull and shoot. Re-aim at the bull, hold the rifle steady, turn each turret until the crosshair aligns on the POI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TBonez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2013 at 21:12
Rancid, If I was using a laser boresight and forgive my newbness but I could just then turn my turrets to match where the laser is pointing right?  no need to take shots correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TBonez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2013 at 21:14
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

I would make one modification to the process, kinda. Rather than fire a round or 2 at the target, then adjust; i recommend a group of at least 3 rounds. If the rounds aren't grouping, no amount of turret spinning will fix the problem.

I cannot tell you how many times i have seen novice shooters chasing bullet holes at the range (shoot 1 round, dope change, shoot 1 round, another dope change, shoot another round, another dope change...) because they were zeroing, pulled a shot, and doped for the pulled shot, not the good shot.

What i do is fire one shot, make sure i am on paper, then fire 2 more, same point of aim. If they group, take the center of the group and adjust on that center. If one or more was a pulled shot, you'll know when you squeeze, throw that one out, and shoot another to replace it.

I highly discourage the "1 shot and adjust" method unless you are quite certain of the quality of the shot. I ain't that good , I group before i adjust.

And forget inches, in the real world nothing has 1-inch grip squares superimposed. If you need a grid, you're doing it wrong.

Sorry for the other post lol... 

So if I was using a laser boresight - and forgive me for my newbness - but couldnt I just turn my scope to match the laser and not fire any shots at all?  Might be an obvious yes answer but I just want to be sure I'm sighting correctly in that process...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2013 at 23:17
You will still need to shoot a group to verify. For me I have never had a laser bore sighted rifle match the actual bullet impact. I have how ever heard of it working for some people. Just not me. And you will not know unless you fire a few rounds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cold Trigger Finger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2013 at 16:06
This was my understanding of the usefulness of a mil/ mil quad reticle. To use it as a measuring device. . Save a lot of walking and math. For those who are math challenged like me.
I've used the 2 shot method. And has been mentioned I found shooting a group to be more reliable for a general hunting rifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Theo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2013 at 19:43
In my experience, I always remember " BS "... B=Bullet POI TO S=Scope POI. I use this consistent scope turret movements for both Bore Sighting(BPOI=Bulls Eye) and Zeroing(BPOI=Actual Impact) adjustments!

Simply, if the Bullet POI is at the 10o'clock position from the Bulls Eye (say 1 moa to the left & 1 moa up), I dial 1 moa elevation to the right, and 1 moa windage down, adjusting turrets as a measurement (use mil specs if appropriate). I don't hold the rifle perfectly still to visualize the change while looking through the scope. I find the measurement method easier, following the logic of turret direction, but either will get you on ZERO!

Works for me, but can verify here Scope Zeroing and of course, page one Here of the OP...Christopher!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stifun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2014 at 11:04
that's ok when zeroing in but when you've zeroed in and looking at targets varying in distance you need to know that 2 mil dots down =10 or 12 or how many yds it is at that distance so 30yds zero, target 47 yds what dots do you look at
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cold Trigger Finger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2014 at 12:14
Good question.
One I don't know the answer to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stifun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2014 at 14:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike220 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2014 at 09:41
Good write up! This Is why I always reccomend folks to get the 1/10 mil turrets to match there milliradian based reticle. The adjustments match the grid. Its also helpful to know what the value mil holds In relation to yardage. 1 mil at 100 yards = 3.6" with your 1/10 turret one click eguals. 36" 1 mil at 200 yards has a value of 7.2" with a 1/10 click value of. 72" so on and so forth. Once you get the basics you can also range targets with your reticle. The only inch value I use Is for my target heights. If you know the height of your target that can be used along with your reticle. Target height In inches divided by # of mils read x 27.78 eguals distance to target.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2014 at 10:19
Originally posted by Mike220 Mike220 wrote:

Target height In inches divided by # of mils read x 27.78 eguals distance to target.


I prefer to convert the target width or height (whatever's being measured) to distance units first (yards or meters), e.g. 18" = .5 yards. Multiply that times 1000 and you have the distance at 1 mil, e.g. 500 yards. Then divide by mils read, 500 / .8 mils = 625.

Metric users have it a bit easier, since all units are decimal, e.g. 54 cm = .54 meters. With yards and inches, I found it helped to remember that every 4 inches is ~.11 yards:

4     0.11
8     0.22
12     0.33
16     0.44
20     0.56
24     0.67
28     0.78
32     0.89
36     1.00

Got a target size like 19"? Just go with 20, especially if the mils read is greater than 1. Frankly, if you're dealing with a target less than 18" and are reading less than .75 mils, you'd better be really good. The farther out you shoot, the harder it is to range and ballistics are increasingly not in your favor. If you're off by 25 yards at 750 yards that's probably a miss.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike220 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2014 at 10:54
To much there for me to keep up with lol. Ill stick to what's easy for me. Can have alot of fun with It. Chrony your loads. Run through a ballistics trajectory program. Gets you close. Nothing beats actual range time though. Always good to keep data wrote down for various shooting conditions. Do the same thing with my hand loads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stifun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2014 at 13:04
thanks for that mate ,its been interesting I think I need a lot of range time to get to know my scope ,I have a competition in Feb so fingers crossed I will have it sorted ,off to the range now see you in 3 weeks      
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