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Tikka Tactical 308 scope help pls!

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Chris Farris II View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 11:33
I am going to give my feelings on the Custom Turret vs. the Mil/Mil setup. The custom turret works great to dial in elevation. It however does nothing for wind. You will still have to learn the winds affect on your bullet. 400 yards may be just a "chip shot" for Jg but a lot of people never have shot past 200 yards. Just for an example the .308 with a 165 grain bullet and a 100 yard zero at 400 yards will drop around 30 inches. That is easy to adjust with or without a dial if you have done you research. It will also drift about 16 inches left or right depending on which way the wind is blowing. That too is easy to adjust for if you have done your homework. There is no subsitute for experience and knowing your gun, IMO.  Why limit yourself to a knob for the 1 gun and load combo? Sure you can get a knob for every gun and/or load at an extra $60 a piece or you can just learn the rifle, which also builds confidence, and save the money. The mil system works just as good if not better and will work on any gun and load combination. You can learn the drop and wind drift of your current rifle setup and even print off a little table and tape it to your stock if you'd like.

Edited by Chris Farris II - April/16/2012 at 11:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 11:34
Pretty much all of the reviews stated that they tunneled somewhat from 3 to 4.5x. But one of the reviewers stated that it was virtually neutralized with proper eye relief. At least on the original ones.

See under optics section.

http://www.opticstalk.com/variable-super-sniper_topic17763.html

See third paragraph.

http://www.opticstalk.com/review-of-super-sniper-39x42_topic23908.html


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 11:40
As far as the CDS is concerned. Once the dial is made. They only work with one caliber, bullet, load and barrel length. Change any of those and they no longer work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 14:29
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

As far as the CDS is concerned. Once the dial is made. They only work with one caliber, bullet, load and barrel length. Change any of those and they no longer work.

In this situation I specifically said to have the CDS dial made up like the MOA dial.  Leupold does this all the time, therefore it's not load specific at all.  

CFII.....good points.  For the record, 400 is not a chip shot when the wind isn't cooperating, as I posted.  I don't shoot at game under those conditions because I'm not good enough to dope the wind reliably.  I know my limitations.  On a calm day however, with a dial of some sort, it's so easy a caveman could do it.  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 14:51
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

As far as the CDS is concerned. Once the dial is made. They only work with one caliber, bullet, load and barrel length. Change any of those and they no longer work.

In this situation I specifically said to have the CDS dial made up like the MOA dial.  Leupold does this all the time, therefore it's not load specific at all.  

CFII.....good points.  For the record, 400 is not a chip shot when the wind isn't cooperating, as I posted.  I don't shoot at game under those conditions because I'm not good enough to dope the wind reliably.  I know my limitations.  On a calm day however, with a dial of some sort, it's so easy a caveman could do it.  Smile
Then that ruins the whole point of a CDS and you still have to learn just as much as you do with the MIL knobs but you lose the reticle to measure with. I am sorry but I don't see how anyone can justify spending extra money to get a knob in the same format as all of the others. Not to mention you also lose the FFP feature and all ranging capabilities. Loco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 15:09
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

 
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I can't imagine anything more simple than that 308 sighted dead on at 100 yards with a VX3 3.5-10x40 CDS.  Chrono the load, send the info to Leupold, they'll send you a dial that will be deadly out to 650 or so.  It couldn't be more simple. 


So get a CDS dial set up in MOA. 


First you said to Chrono the load. That is why I talked about what I did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 15:57
CFII.  I was trying to make it simple.  In this case, out to 400, it's not that hard.  A CDS yardage dial can let you hit your target consistently at 400 (again, little wind).  It's so easy it's almost cheating, no mils/dots required.  When the wind starts swirling/blowing, forget about it whether you have mils, dots, hashes,etc.....it's just an educated guess and one I won't make on big game.  On the CDS/MOA, just run the ballistics, make a chart, consistently hit your target. Again, wind has to cooperate, no dots/mils etc required.  IME the wind is seldom doing the same thing at the target as it's doing where you're shooting from at a distance.   It's always a good idea to know what your bullet is doing no matter if you run yardage dials, MOA dials, mil reticles, etc isn't it?   It's also always a good idea to know the subtensions of your reticle.  I can take my 7mag with a Conquest on top of it right now and consistently hit a 400 yard target with nothing more than a plex reticle.  I'm sure there are lots of hunters who like low profile dials, probably just as many who don't.  Fine by me.  Just no need to overcomplicate the issue.  

Range it, dial it, hit it.  No big deal.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 16:01
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

 
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I can't imagine anything more simple than that 308 sighted dead on at 100 yards with a VX3 3.5-10x40 CDS.  Chrono the load, send the info to Leupold, they'll send you a dial that will be deadly out to 650 or so.  It couldn't be more simple. 


So get a CDS dial set up in MOA. 


First you said to Chrono the load. That is why I talked about what I did.

You need to chrono the load whether you use a yardage dial or a MOA dial so you can run the ballistics on it and know what you're bullet is doing.   Beforehand when you have a CDS yardage dial made, and at the time you make your bullet drop chart for the MOA/CDS dial.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 16:24
Now, I am confused.  If you simply make the CDS knob non-caliber specific (i.e. marked in MOA or mil), how is it different from any other scope with a good quality exposed elevation knob?

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 16:26
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Now, I am confused.  If you simply make the CDS knob non-caliber specific (i.e. marked in MOA or mil), how is it different from any other scope with a good quality exposed elevation knob?

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 16:44
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Now, I am confused.  If you simply make the CDS knob non-caliber specific (i.e. marked in MOA or mil), how is it different from any other scope with a good quality exposed elevation knob?

ILya

I haven't used anybody else's dials so I can't answer that.  Mine don't have hashes, dots,  or any clutter whatsoever, just plex reticles.  Works for me very well.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 16:44
And why do you need to chrono you bullet to setup a knob in a basic angular measurements that are fixed and never change. To each his own I guess but I am with you Koshkin. Some people are just so confrontational they cloud their own views, usually for the worse. In my opinion it doesn't even matter to begin with as he is reccomending a scope for hunting. Everyone else in the thread read where the initial poster said hunting/target shooting, not hunting with your dial and only in perfect conditions. I wouldn't let wind affect my hunt I would have a qualtiy optic that was capable of doing both and take the time to get to know my gun and how to use it in all conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 16:52
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Now, I am confused.  If you simply make the CDS knob non-caliber specific (i.e. marked in MOA or mil), how is it different from any other scope with a good quality exposed elevation knob?

ILya

I haven't used anybody else's dials so I can't answer that.  Mine don't have hashes, dots,  or any clutter whatsoever, just plex reticles.  Works for me very well.    

Good solid repeatable knobs are at the basis of every decent tactical scope out there.  There are also becoming popular on many newer hunting scopes as well.

The choice of the reticle is in the eye of the beholder of course and I am typically not a big fan of overly complicated reticle designs.  However, I would be very surprised if something along the lines of a MilDot reticle, or any of the similarly simple ranging reticles really takes away from your target acquisition speed.  

As far as hunting scopes go, probably the best implementation of a well integrated elvation knob in a hunting scope I have seen to date is this Leica:

I liked this scope enough to make arrangements for a review of one when I was at SHOT.  I will probably look at the model with the IBS reticle though.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 16:55
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

CFII. I was trying to make it simple. In this case, out to 400, it's not that hard. A CDS yardage dial can let you hit your target consistently at 400 (again, little wind). It's so easy it's almost cheating, no mils/dots required. When the wind starts swirling/blowing, forget about it whether you have mils, dots, hashes,etc.....it's just an educated guess and one I won't make on big game. On the CDS/MOA, just run the ballistics, make a chart, consistently hit your target. Again, wind has to cooperate, no dots/mils etc required. IME the wind is seldom doing the same thing at the target as it's doing where you're shooting from at a distance. It's always a good idea to know what your bullet is doing no matter if you run yardage dials, MOA dials, mil reticles, etc isn't it? It's also always a good idea to know the subtensions of your reticle. I can take my 7mag with a Conquest on top of it right now and consistently hit a 400 yard target with nothing more than a plex reticle. I'm sure there are lots of hunters who like low profile dials, probably just as many who don't. Fine by me. Just no need to overcomplicate the issue.

Range it, dial it, hit it. No big deal.
Really? I would hate pass on one of the 200"+ AI Muleys because there was a slight wind. Also, to what you just said if you put the time in beind your rifle you can get a lot closer than guessing. You just have to learn how the wind affects your bullet and have a wind guage of some sort. Pretty simple and accurate actually.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 17:00
The point is, IME, I do not need anything other than a CDS dial and a plex reticle.  Out to 400 I dont need anything more than a plex reticle and a FX3 6x.  When the weather cooperates I can hit rocks out to 900 yards with my 7mag and a VX6 CDS.  Nothing more complicated than that.  As far as Leica goes, I'm sure it's great glass and great build quality.  However, given their commitment to, or lack therof, the riflescope market in the past I won't own one for a while until they prove they're serious about it.   That's only my personal opinion of course.  

Do you have a pic of the elevation knob in that Leica?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 17:06
When the wind is blowing it's easy to get closer.  No need to guesstimate the wind effects.  Go to the general hunting forum CFII and feast your eyes on a true giant TX muley that we cannot kill.  Do you seriously believe those bucks are anything other than naturally reproduced bucks?  Seriously?  

In a 20-30mph swirling wind there's no way to figure it out consistently IME.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 20:21
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

A CDS yardage dial can let you hit your target consistently at 400 (again, little wind).  It's so easy it's almost cheating, no mils/dots required.  When the wind starts swirling/blowing, forget about it whether you have mils, dots, hashes,etc.....

Hear me now, believe me later.  If you don't dial windage and refuse to use any reticle that allows you to precisely hold off, it's very unlikely you'll ever learn to shoot adequately in mild winds, much less well in challenging winds.  Counting on a perfectly windless day is not a recipe for success.  Dots and dashes are only stupid until you figure out what they're there for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aknurr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 20:53
Illuminated reticles are great for hunting.  Critters come out as it gets dark, and it's easy to lose the reticle in the fur.  The leupold vx-r is a good compromise.  I have had a lot of trouble with vortex scopes.  Returned another one today. Won't buy another.  Taking a shot on an animal beyond 300yds is iffy unless you've practiced a lot.  Tikka's are great.  Got one in.308 with a zeiss 8x56.  Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 21:09
Dude,
 
What's you short shots going to look like? Worry about those first!  If you can get some range time the rest of the stuff you can work out.  If you can't get the range time then you are not going to get used to working the knobs.  Bucky
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2012 at 21:21
Come on JonA, I never said or meant to insinuate that dots, etc are stupid.  I've never used them, so I cannot comment.  There's a lot of people here that are very passionate about their gear, and that's fine by me.  I just hate that people (not you) get so wrapped up in it and wind up getting pizzed off.  We're talking scopes here for gosh sakes, not feeding our families.  Everyone needs to lighten up a bit here I believe. 

I'm pretty decent in mild winds, just not gusting, swirling stuff.  I don't care if I ever kill a big deer at long distance.  It's fun to kill hogs, coyotes, and cull aoudad ewes at those distances though.  Shooting a long ways is just fun, period. 
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