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mil169
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2012 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Posted: March/17/2012 at 19:44 |
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Not sure if I should add this to another post or start a new one, but I have finall narrowed my choices for my Win. model 70 7mm rem mag to these:
1) Leupold VX-R 4-12 CDS with the FireDot Duplex
2) Sightron SII Big Sky 4-16x42 AO and target turrets
Is the 12x on the Leupold enough for 500yds, thought the illuminated reticle would be nice. Or should I stay witht the Sightron.
Thanks for all the help.
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Thundey
Optics Apprentice Joined: August/14/2011 Location: Idaho Status: Offline Points: 130 |
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I personally would choose the Loopy FWIW.
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: May/07/2009 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 3416 |
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I like the Leupold out of those two.
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-Matt
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mil169
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2012 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Thanks for the advice and for responding to my posts Bitterroot, it is appreciated. I think I'm leaning towards the Leupold also. The CDS dial should be easy to use for dialing in the slightly longer shots of 4-500yds, as long as the 12x is adequate.
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: May/07/2009 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 3416 |
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12x should be OK for 500 yards. You might have to dial it down though.
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-Matt
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mil169
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2012 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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I wish I could have put this dog to bed, but I just can't seem to settle on the same scope two days in a row. I kind of feel like I should have mounted up the Viper HS LR 4-16x44 I had, and given it a shot. But the fear of committment set me back.
Was looking at Leupy's but can't get myself away from Vortex. The PST in the same magnificaiton range as I had is two much $$ for me, but if I drop to the 2.5-10x44 it would work. Which maybe should have been the way I went in the first place, just had it in my head that I would need more that 10x for the 500 yarder. The 2.5 would be nice for the occasional close shot, and most of my shots up to 300 yds would be on 6x or less anyway.
So the final question of the day would be : Is the 10x strong enough to hit a milk jug at 500 yds? the lighted reticle would take care of the previous crosshair issue. Now, if only the offered the lighter reticle on the Viper HS LR 4-16x44, I would be in business.
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mil169
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2012 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Or do I just save for another month, and spring another $100 for the 4-16x50. That looks like a kick ass scope.
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Sparky
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: July/15/2007 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 4569 |
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Can you see the milk jug at 50yds without any magnification? That is similar to what it will look like at 500yds with 10x magnification. And if you can not hit it with 10x, 16x is not going to make any difference in being able to hit it. I would go with the Leupold. Also it seems most people get way too much magnification in the beginning. |
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mil169
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2012 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Sparky-
Thanks for the comparison, makes sense. What features of the Leupold do you like better than the PST?
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: May/07/2009 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 3416 |
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I would go PST over either of your original choices.
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-Matt
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mil169
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2012 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Throwing out all of the scopes I've asked about on my own is there one you would suggest for my purpose? Which is mainly hunting dusk to dark (most shots under 300yds) but target shooting to 500yd. Would the SS 3-9x40 be all that I need magnification wise? |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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There are a lot of scopes that will do what you want. To shoot long range you need to either be able to dial in correction with target / tactical knobs or you need a balistic reticle that you understand how to use. The Zeiss Rapid Z800 in a 4.5-14x44 is a fine choice for a balistic reticle. Sometimes higher magnification scopes like a 4-16 or 5-20 can be helpful but mainly to view the possible target to determine if this is the deer that you really want to shoot or to look at holes in a target without a spotting scope. If a guy knows what he is doing he can shoot iron sights at 600 to 1000 yds and get consistent hits. So when you remember that there are guys at Camp Perry shooting 1000 yds with open sights the answer is yes you can take a 3-9x42 Super Sniper or a fixed 6x Leupold or Super Sniper and shoot a long long way.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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http://www.kentonindustries.com/pics/ttctypes/Kenton Industries custom engraves knobs with marks in yds for a specific bullet load.
The CDS ---- Leupold Custom Dial System -- is the same thing but low profile like typical hunting knobs. Dialing in correction works no matter what power the scope is on. When it gets dark you need to dial a scope to lower power like 6x42 or 7x50 Several scopes will work if you want more power than 9x look at the Vortex HS and PST lines, but the Leupold you mentioned first will work also the Sightron would too likely but may not have lots of internal adjustment since its a 1 inch tube. This is the scope from the video:
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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mil169
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2012 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Thanks Urimaginaryfrnd for reviewing this topic with me several times. I actually re-read my original post and realized I had forgotten about several of the options you listed then. I had it in my head that I needed more magnification, but spoke with a police sniper friend of mine and he told me that they use a Vari XIII or maybe II in 3-9x40 with a duplex and target style turrets. I also know he went to Utah and spent some time on the range and shot out to 800yds with it. So clearly I've overthought that part of it.
Not sure what to use as the deciding factor now though. I really like the look and feel of the Viper HS LR I had but the BDC reticle was concering at low light. Have thought about the V-Plex on the one you mentioned, but was wondering if it had the same zero stop feature of the LR. Thought maybe the 50mm lenswould make the V-Plex easier to see at dawn and dusk.
Anymore thoughts?
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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This is what I think you need to consider regarding choosing a scope. First and most important is How do you hunt - is it stalking or is it from a fixed position. If it is stalking lower powers are important and illumination is very helpful. If you will be in a stand or blind or a position along the edge of the field where you can take a solid rest you can take advantage of a lot of magnification. Scopes with a basic reticle like a duplex can be sighted in with zero at 200 yds and most guys can figure out how high to hold over at 300 some possibly farther. When you get past 300 yds it starts to get really difficult to estimate and the two possible systems are 1. a balistic reticle which unfortunately most are 2nd focal plane so they are only true at one specific magnification usually the highest power. 2. the second possible is target / Tactical knobs and the down side for hunting is most of them are tall and can snag on brush and have the knob turned by accident or possible get damaged but most are pretty darn tough. The Leupold CDS knobs work like a target knob but are low profile and like a kenton knob can be custom engraved to your caliber. It is not absolutely necessary to do that though because target knobs are either marked in1/10 mil s or in 1/4 moa. So with tactical knobs you just need to know what the distance is usually by a laser rangefinder then you need to know what number to dial the scope to and I keep notes taped inside the rear flip up lens cap. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_drift-5.1.cgi balistics calculator which allows you to select drop in mil or in MOA. People do tend to select more powerful scopes than they really need but therer are advantages both ways. If you want more magnification than the 3-9 you might want to look at this it has great glass low profile target knobs with screw on covers and you can get engraved Kenton knobs for it plus it has a balistic reticle so you can choose to either use the reticle or to dial in correction if you need to dial down the power in low light. One other good point is the rainguard finish on the lens is very hunting in bad weather friendly. I have one similar that is a 4-16x40 4200 on a 300 WM and like it very much for a hunting scope.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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mil169
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2012 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Thanks fort the suggestion. I do like alot of the features. I have two concerns though.
1)The DOA 600 reticle seems awfully busy, would it be possible to just use the Multi-X? (found one for $600 NIB) Unfortunately I don't have anyone near by that has one I could look at.
2) How is Bushnells customer service/warranty? I called them today to try to find out the dimensions on the reticles and they apparently didn't have that info available to them. I've read many mixed reviews on their CS, and am not sure what to think. As we all know the CS of Leupold, Sightron and Vortex is outstanding.
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mil169
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2012 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Alright- I think this is finally IT. Like some others on here, I've toiled over this decision for about 2 months now and looked at so much stuff I probably just confused myself. However, I have learned a great quantity about differances in scopes and their features.
With that being said I've decided this: I really like the Vortex Viper HS LR and PST turrets, the zero stop feature is neat as hell and like how easily the windage can be zero'd. Also on the 44mm I had for a week, I thought the glass was every bit as good and a VX3. Plus I've spoken with their CS several times and they all have been very nice and informative.
So I think what I will do, (after speaking with Vortex) and see if they will send both the Viper HS LR 4-16x50 and the PST 4-16x50 (the lighted reticle should cure my only complaint that I had on the 44mm, although the exposed windage turret maybe a concern depending on how easily it turns) to my local dealer for me to look at. I will have to pay tax if I purchase one or the other but at this point my sleep is worth more. If I don't like either one, then I will save a few more months and get the Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50 with the Z-Plex and target turrets. Don't really want to spend $880 on the scope (the significant other would probably not understand) but I want a very nice scope that will work under all conditions, and I don't "need" the scope until about August. I guess I will continue to check the samplelist and hopefully come across a good deal before someone else does.
Thanks Urrmaginaryfriend for all of the suggestions. You helped me learn alot, and I did notice you seem to prefer the 30mm tubes.
Thanks again.
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: May/07/2009 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 3416 |
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mil169,
Great minds think alike. I just put my order in for a 4-16X50 PST. The reticle difference was what did it for me.
We will have to compare notes.
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-Matt
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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If you have narrowed it down to those two pick the one you think you are most likely to like and order it in from SWFA look at it ---- do not mount it until you are sure you want to keep it and if you dont like it pay the shipping to send it back and order something else. I have done this many times and SWFA is great to work with. The idea of shipping two scopes to your local dealer is a problem they will not want to deal with because they pay shipping there and back for what you dont buy. S.W.F.A Inc.'s Handshake Guarantee
We have been in business for over 35 years and counting. We do business based on a very simple idea. If you are not 100% satisfied with our products or service, we'll refund your money! Just return any new unused item to us within 10 days from the date delivered. Include a copy of your receipt and we will issue a refund. Shipping charges are not refundable and we can not accept returns on special order items. No C.O.D.'s. All Warranties are through the manufacturer only. No warranties are expressed or implied by S.W.F.A.. Prices' do not include shipping and handling. Texas residents add 8.25% sales tax. Prices are subject to change without notice. S.W.F.A. is not responsible for mis-prints or errors, Personal and or business checks are held 10 days. Once you mount a scope it becomes used product and used products are not eligible for refund, exchange, or return (placing the scope in rings constitutes mounting). We only ship to United States of America addresses. Returns are subject to a 15% Restocking Fee. We will take just about anything (of value) on trade, including firearms. We have a list of demo, refurbished, trade in, closeout, and sample scopes, binoculars and spotting scopes available for viewing by clicking here. 110% Low Price GuaranteeIf you find a lower price at any competitor's store on a new identical item just show us the lower price when you buy the item at SWFA or within 10 days after your SWFA purchase and we'll give you 110% of the difference. Our 10-day price-match guarantee is good on everything from optics to accessories. The item must be in stock and available for purchase at that price from a company (excluding wholesale or membership clubs) with a physical store location in the U.S. who is authorized by the manufacturer to sell the product. |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - March/20/2012 at 20:52 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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