OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Why is the Vortex Viper PST so cheap?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

Topic ClosedWhy is the Vortex Viper PST so cheap?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 11:12
Hahaha ... yes, maybe hypoxia; maybe also many other things ... However I was not mentioning the 2500$ as an "insult". What hurts me is the 2499$ ! just to have a look like in the 2400& range!  Everything priced xx99 ( sometimes even xx99.9 !) makes me uncomfortable. This is not based ont the real costs and calculated % of income, this is based on the idea to take the maximum from the buyer
Back to Top
blue109 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: November/13/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 24
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 11:24
so its the 99 that bothers you? you would be ok if the scope was 2500 instead?
Back to Top
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 11:29
Of course it is not the difference of price. It is the concept which stays behind it
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13181
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 11:34
Originally posted by G Kurtz G Kurtz wrote:

Hahaha ... yes, maybe hypoxia; maybe also many other things ... However I was not mentioning the 2500$ as an "insult". What hurts me is the 2499$ ! just to have a look like in the 2400& range!  Everything priced xx99 ( sometimes even xx99.9 !) makes me uncomfortable. This is not based ont the real costs and calculated % of income, this is based on the idea to take the maximum from the buyer

At first I thought you had some sort of a malicious intent, but I am beginning to change my mind.  You have some severe superclavicular problems.

Here is some capitalism 101 for you:
A business should charge as much for their product as the market is willing to pay.  What that product actually costs them to make is nobody's business, but their own.

Just for the record, Vortex Razor 5-20x50 costs $2000, not $2500 and at that price is one of the better deals in the tactical market place.

All that aside, could you clarify exactly where it is that you currently are located? (keeping in mind that if push comes to shove I can track your IP address).

ILya
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13181
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 11:41
Oh, and to address the original post:

Viper PST scopes are probably the highest end riflescopes to come out of Phillipines to date.  They are very full featured and it took Vortex a while to get them to the market.  That is what happens when you push the capabilities of the factory you use.  At this point, they seem to have stabilized the supply and the manufacturing process.  From what I have seen, the jewel of the PST line is the 6-24x50.  4-15x50 is decent for the money, while 2.5-10x44 I did not like too much.

With the 1-4x24, I prefer the version covered turrets that is being marketed under the HS line (and it is a bit cheaper than the PST version to boot).

ILya
Back to Top
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 11:58
I also have some news for you Mr. Ilya: capitalism is falling apart and I don't think that insulting other people can be of some help. Working hard, honestly, trying to be the best and taking the fair amount of income will be probably better
 
The price of 2499$ for the Razor HD 5-20x50 is what is written in their website. If it is instead 2000$ this means maybe there were 499$ "the market does not want to pay" ? hehe
I agree with U that at this price is one of the better deals, but I will never buy one
 
PS: U cannot trace my IP beacuse I'm forced to  use a VPN from the place where I'm now. If U will check now U will see is from a server "Los Angeles 10" ... but I can easily change and look as I'm in Ukraine or other places ... And I'm not doing this for my pleasure, believe me
Back to Top
blue109 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: November/13/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 24
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 12:15
capitalism is falling apart


so will i be able to buy a $75 leupold when its gone?
Back to Top
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 12:19
Haha! Maybe yes! A REAL one!
The problem will be to  buy a beef steak!!
Back to Top
coldhunt View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 12:21
Mr Kurtz sure has the dust flying in here. Could you please sweep a little lighter Mr Kurtz. I am having a hard time breathing.
Back to Top
jjrgr21 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/10/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 368
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 13:23
the point is:

votex makes quality products with an outstanding warranty and CS.

if you don't like where they are made, don't buy it. but don't crack on others for the route they chose.

personally i prefer my SS 5-20/3-9/ and 10X, as well as leupold mk4.

but i did buy a strikfire, and after shooting aimpoints for 5 years, it's hard to justify another $300 of my $$.

the razors are seeing combat, and perform great.

in the end who gives a sh*t where it's made if it works for you.
Back to Top
Gerry Atric View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: April/21/2011
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 340
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 14:28
Originally posted by G Kurtz G Kurtz wrote:

I'm sorry Mr Gerry: what "facts" I've not get straight?
Of course I don't want to insult anybody
K
 
It´s a fact (and common knowledge) that Bushnell, Burris, and many of the other scope manufacturers do outsource the manufacturing to "the pacific rim", somtimes it´s the complete scope, sometimes it´s parts. The HQ will be american - that´s all.
 
I would think it´s difficult to buy one single technical device today that is debugged regarding at least parts of a pacific rim (maybe even chinese Shocked) origin.
 
We had a deep discussion regarding hunting radios; 155MHz or 31 MHz and if we should buy brand X, Y or Z. The discussion ended when one guy showed us the chinese brand XYZ functioning at both 155 and 31 MHz, resembling all 3 brands at the outside and identical as brand X at the inside......at 1/10th of the prize.
 
That´s the facts
 
Gerry Atric
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13181
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 16:05
Capitalism would probably not be falling apart all that much if we actually practiced it in some measure.  What we've got is "socialism light", and that is a problem.

All politics aside, it sounds like we've got a bonified "secret squirrel" on the forum.

Mr Kurtz, in the twenty or so posts you have made on this forum so far, you have been generally correct that China is an enemy to the west.  However, just about everything you have said about any specific product was either common knowledge or ignorant bullcrap.

If I were to make a guess, I would venture that you are some 14 year old mall ninja behind a computer in West Hollywood somewhere.  You read some articles somewhere on the internet about the threat of China and about counterfeit chinese riflescopes and having never actually seen a riflescope in person you decided to take on the internet and do some trolling.

You are welcome to stick around.  This is a good forum with a lot of good information.  All of us who have come her learned something.  However, please tone down your rhetoric and keep it contained to applicable threads.

ILya
Back to Top
biggreen747 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: October/16/2009
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 470
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 19:20
I think his name says it all... he's been watching "Apocalypse Now" too many times.. "G (Gen.) Kurtz" was the wacko living in Cambodia or Laos or wherever the hell it was in the movie.


Edited by biggreen747 - December/11/2011 at 19:25
We measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, and cut it with a chainsaw.
Back to Top
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 21:28
Haha thanx for rejuvenating me more than a little, Mr Ilja! But (sadly) I'm NOT based in West Hollywood, at least at the moment! ... actually NOT AT ALL there hahaha!
 
There is no "secret" but as this forum appears to have some 15K members - and it not happens to me to know personally (I think) any of them - you will excuse me if I try to keep some privacy 
 
I'm happy at least we are on same line regarding the China threat. But ... ILya, have U read what Gerry Atric is writing about hunting radios? Don't U think this kind of situation is DANGEROUS?!? This forum has a special public, it is a public of Western Warriors, to raise their awareness of this kind of danger it is, in my opinion, important. You say this is unnecessary? Ok! But maybe this public is not totally composed of professionals and experts, maybe there is some newby. Moreover even professionals and experts can benefit
of some "instillation of doubts" when they are about to buy some product coming from not-so-friendly (it is an euphemism) countries.
 
Also, it is NOT the same as in the past, e.g. with Japanese cameras or motorbykes: U do NOT install a Nikon  on a 338 Lapua Mag piece of steel !
 
It is true I have been out of this kind of game for some year (I have a personal 700P with a VariX-II 3-9x40 back at home, I think this speaks a little) but I have used hardware in the past and - this is the point - I have a special observation point (different from yours) as I spent good part of the last 15 years in "High Asia" and as I'm here NOW (which is why I have to use a VPN)
 
Ok take care, now I have to go. And sorry if I look "rethoric" it is not my intention. Actually I like this place and enjoy the discussion. Hope it will be kept under good control also from Ur side
K
 
PS: yes, Biggreen, but it was just a Colonel, not General. Morevoer it is a citation of something before: it is  "Heart of Darkness", by Joseph Conrad 
 
Back to Top
jjrgr21 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/10/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 368
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 22:20
"I would venture that you are some 14 year old mall ninja"

thats some funny sh*t
Back to Top
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 22:39
Haha, Ya! and especially funny for me, because Mr Ilja cannot be more wrong than this
Back to Top
Gerry Atric View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: April/21/2011
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 340
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 01:47
G Kurtz,
 
"I'm happy at least we are on same line regarding the China threat. But ... ILya, have U read what Gerry Atric is writing about hunting radios? Don't U think this kind of situation is DANGEROUS?!? This forum has a special public, it is a public of Western Warriors, to raise their awareness of this kind of danger it is, in my opinion, important."
 
Maybe I was somewhat unclear, I really don´t mind buying equipment from China as long as I know what I´m doing. I´m convinced that in the future China will produce a rifle scope "worth looking through" the OEM-contracts for american/european is only the beginning.
 
I´m more concerned when the buyer is paying dearly for a american or european product and getting a concealed chinese one, (as in the radios I spoke of) then obviously someone is making some good money importing cheap - selling at a good margin.
 
Should we blame the chinese OEM-manufacturers or the importer?
 
Gerry Atric
 
Back to Top
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 02:54

Hi Gerry

YES! I agree with U. And actually the Chinese have already the capacity to build quality optics. E.g. some months ago I had in my hands a Jaxy binocular 7x50, compass and reticle  diastimometric, Chinese military grade: solid, heavy (real glass, not optical plastic) precise, decent resolution. Of course tested side by side in low light versus my old Zeiss 7x50 that was in another league BUT the price I bargained for that thing was - if I remember well - 300 RMB (around 50$)!h

 

The only way the West can manage this kind of competition is by mean of quality. The rebranding or camouflaging way - as for the radios U mentioned - has NO-future at all.

 

Moreover the idea of hi-tech engineering in the West and then having the manufacture in China IS EVEN WORST! They have no respect of brevets, copyrights, design or whatever and they are secretly encouraged (or at least not REALLY dissuaded) to do so by their government. Therefore they will simply stole ASAP ur technology and then producing that same thing at 1/10th of the cost (this is the order of measure). Your company will be out of business in the time to say "Ooh ... WTF?!?"

 

Let me make a quite recent citation of the CEO of Leica dr Schopf:

Q: … would U considering moving the manufacturing to China at any point to make the price more competitive?

A: NEVER. Our lenses cannot be made by machines and our staff have 25 years of experience. We have moved some mechanical work to Portugal, but there we have hired watchmakers, who have similar experience …

 

Portugal, Philippines, Thailand, Czechoslovakia, Taiwan or wherever is NOT the same as PR China. There the Rule of Law does exist and – if not respected – there are ways to enforce it (commercially, not necessarily by the use of Force) … which is NOT the case for China, where enforcement at present is basically unfeasible, or unpractical

 

Outsourcing too much or totally moving the production line elsewhere is always dangerous, but to do so in China is suicide … referring to Military & Defense industry, maybe – in the medium to long run - even more than a commercial suicide

 

A+

K

Back to Top
saenzrich View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: December/06/2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 20:14
Moderators should close this thread.....it has been far off track from the OP....very sad.
Back to Top
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 14964
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 20:54
Agreed

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.344 seconds.