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Zen-ray vs. Meopta vs Zeiss Conquest

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atomiclab View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Zen-ray vs. Meopta vs Zeiss Conquest
    Posted: November/17/2011 at 14:08


I have been looking and researching for a long time, and I still need some help.

The binos Im considering most are:

Zen-Ray ED3    8x43
MeOpta meostar B1 8x42
Zeiss Conquest  8x40


the Zen-Rays are several hundred dollars cheaper (which is a budget plus)

I have never looked through the Zen-Rays.

I have looked through the MeOptas in one store.  Compared to others, including Nikon EDG, I liked the MeOptas.  The MeOptas were actually the first binos I ever put to my eyes and said "wow" 

I have looked through the Zeiss Conquest binos in another store and compared to many others (most all brands)  and thought they were very nice.  In store Swaros were maybe detectably better and without a doubt the Leica were nice and bright (reminded me of my MeOpta experience)  all things considered I know these are all LESS than ideal conditions to compare and contrast optics.

I have 2 Zeiss Conquest Rifle scopes, and I love them.  I think they are great!


I am looking to you guys here in the forum with more knowledge and experience than me to help me decide.  Or, at least influence me.


Should I just wait till the Zen-Ray Prime HD comes out? and hear how they compare?  


One more piece of information. The Leupold cascades 10x42 are my standard of an absolute MINIMUM performance.  I am assuming the Binos Im considering with easily out perform the cascades.


Thank you for your input
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 14:15
I have compared Meotpa Meostar and Zeiss Conquest side by side.  I though the Meopta was quite a bit better. 

Never used Zen Rays.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 14:16
cool.  +1 Meopta.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 14:49
I have spent hours and hours with the Zen ED2 and Meopta Meostar in 10x configurations.  The Zens are the better value.  The Meoptas are the better overall binocular.
 
I have only briefly looked at Conquest binoculars, but haven't found them too impressive, for their cost.
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 14:57
bitterroot,
I am very interested in your experience with the two.  I do under stand the value the zen's offer.  Tell me more about how you think the meo's are a better binocular.  
this is the kind of stuff Im looking for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 16:10
I have posted a lot about these two binoculars.
 
The boiled-down version is the images are pretty similar.
 
The Zens are more neutral, and have better chromatic aberration control.
 
The Meoptas have a much wider sweet spot, excellent depth of field, and show a little more chromatic aberration.
 
The Zens are built well for their price point.
 
The Meoptas are built like they could deliver them by dropping them unprotected from the shipping airplane.
 
By far, most people that buy either pair are more than satisfied.
-Matt
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atomiclab View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 16:26
does the chromatic aberration cause a problem when looking for game such as deer, elk, moose, ect?

I like the depth of field that the meoptas have.  that was a big plus to me.  And, a wider sweet spot sure sounds sweet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 16:30
I might note that the ZEN ED 3 are an improvement over the ED 2, notably they have a brighter image and a bsttwe sewwt spot than the ED 2 does.
 
The Meopta may well be better built, but I like the feel of the ZEN better.  The Meopta feels nose heavy and I don't care for the diopter adjustment sticking out the way it does.   The ZEN ED glass are built like anything else in that price class.  Not alpha build, but not cheap either, thay are way above that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 16:49
Chromatic aberration is not a problem for many people.  It is distracting to me, but only on very high contrast objects.
 
In hunting, I see CA most often at the edge of dark objects (moose, burnt trees, etc.) over snow.
 
The Meoptas control the CA pretty well in the center of the image.  The Zens control CA extremely well throughout the field of view.
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 17:07
as far as sharpness, clarity, and brightness, how do they compare?

I have no intensions of taking a hammer to my optics or anything,... but sometimes things seem to fall apart in my hands for seemingly no reason.   Ill just throw that out there.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 17:14
I have been using a pair of Meostars for 5 or 6 years.  Been very happy with them.  A couple months back I bought a Leica Geovid HD as I wanted a RF bino. 

In all honestly they are so close it is hard to call, but the Meopta seem to have a larger sweet spot.

Granted my Leica's are on there way back for repair right now as they have what looks like to me a chipped internal lens which may be detracting from the overall image quality a bit.   Guess I will see when I get them back.

So I guess I am just saying the Meoptas are a very fine pair of binos.  There is no way I would pay more than what Meoptas cost for a pair of binos.  Only reason I bought the Leica was because I wanted a RF built in. 

If the Zen Rays are as good as everyone says, I would probably have a hard time spend more than what they cost.  Its just hard to justify $1000 or more for 2 or 3% better image quality


Edited by supertool73 - November/17/2011 at 17:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 17:50
Originally posted by atomiclab atomiclab wrote:

as far as sharpness, clarity, and brightness, how do they compare?

I have no intensions of taking a hammer to my optics or anything,... but sometimes things seem to fall apart in my hands for seemingly no reason.   Ill just throw that out there.  
 
Clarity means too many different things to different people, so I can't give an answer to that.  They are similarly bright and similarly sharp (apparent sharpness) with the smallest edge in centerfield sharpness going to the Zens, and midfield and edge sharpness going noticeably to the Meoptas.
 
The Meoptas have a bit warmer (yellow bias) image.  The Zens more neutral.
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 20:38
I don't know if this will help explain what I am looking for when I ask about sharpness and brightness and clarity.
Ok, heres the story.

My cousin and I were hunting mule deer in south east New Mexico a couple years ago and I had my (very cheap) Bushnell binos,  which I knew wasn't real good, but I didn't know how bad they are.

My cousin and I met up on top of a hill after much frustration, and not seeing much deer for 2 days.  We were doing a little glassing and my cousin tries to point out to me a group of doe.  I look with my binos and I don't see any.  After a lot of back and fourth and pointing and describing, he hands me his Leupold Acadia binos.  BAM!!! there they were.  They were OBVIOUS!  5 doe stand in the grass and amongst minor non-obstructing brush.  They were in the open.  Going back and fourth (bushnell, now Leupold, now bushnell now Leupold)  they are gone (bushnell) they're there (leupold)  
you get the point.


It was amazing!  I was Stareing at them through my binos and COULD NOT SEE THEM.


hence my desire for the best binos I can afford.

I know this story has no measurable detail for glass comparison, but it is a story to tell what Im looking for and why Im looking for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 21:15
I have owned all three bins in question so I can help a bit.
 
I agree with all of what the others have posted at this point.
 
The Zeiss are an excellent bin and probably have the highest light transmission figure of the three because of their use of a specific type of roof prism (Abbe-Koenig). Sadly though, and possibly as a consequence of this type of prism, they also have the highest noticeable color fringing (CA) in the image. This robs the image of some detail and contrast.
 
The Zen Rays are an excellent bin overall. Their image quality is only bettered by the likes of the $2000 Zeiss, Leica, Swaro and Nikon and then only outside the sweetspot. My meaning with that statement is that the big four's sweetspot is a larger percentage of the field of view. Inside the sweetspot the Zen Ray's are entirely comparable to the big four especially with the Zen ED3's upgrades.
 
The Meopta is certainly comparable optically with the other two. The sweetspot is larger than either of the other two which is one of the reasons why folks compare them so often to the big four. Comparable models to the Meopta from the big four would be the Leica Trinovid, Swaro SLC (two versions ago), Zeiss Classic and Nikon Premier HG/LXL. The reason I say that these specific units are comparable to the Meostar is primarily because of their prism coating. The Meostars utilize a silver prism coating which, though better than some coatings, isn't quite as good as the dielectric prism coating found on the newer versions of the big four bins. The Meopta also doesn't utilize ED glass in the objective design. All of the big four's flagship models now do. On that issue you have to keep in mind that Meopta has come out with a new HD version of the Meostar which does incorporate ED glass but it has not yet hit the store shelves. The Cabelas Euro (a rebadged Meopta Meostar) does now include ED glass and is labeled the Euro HD. It is available for about $1000 in the 10x42 version.
 
Despite the fact that the current Meostars don't have the dielectric prism coating and don't have ED glass they still do offer a very attractive image representation because of the unique combination of optical characteristics they do provide. The previously mentioned large sweet spot is one of them. They also have a very flat field of view because of a field flattener element in the design. Lastly, they do have a particularly wide field of view in both the 8x42 and 8x32 configurations...at least in comparison to everything else except for the Zen ED series.
 
Now, based on the story you related I think you will see that improvement in clarity with any of the bins you are considering. It is often mentioned on the various optics forums that the biggest jump in optical performance is going from the sub-$100 roof prism models to the $300 units. That may have been true 5 years ago but now there are even $100-$130 roof prism models (thinking Swift Reliant, Zen Ray Vista and Eagle Optics Radian here) that offer that optical jump from the likes of bins like the Bushnell H20 series, etc... The models you are considering are a significant step up from even those $100-$300 models so you will have no problem achieving that "clarity" that you are after.
 
The Prime HD you referenced is likely going to be an entirely different animal than the other three. It has the potential to be the best optical value when you consider the optical design promised. If we are truly talking edge to edge sharpness with the latest glass and prism coatings plus an ED glass objective then there aren't going to be any bins to rival it except for the Swaro Swarovision EL (and maybe the Nikon EDG) but they are going to be 3 to 4 times the Prime HD's price point.


Edited by FrankD - November/17/2011 at 21:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2011 at 22:09
Thanks FrankD,

maybe I should wait till the Zen-ray Prime HD comes out and hear what people have to say about them.

I would like to hear more about the meoptas wht the HD lenses.

It might be nice if someone had experience with both standard meostars and HD meostars side by side they would share their experience and opinions.


This has all been great information.

Thinking of dropping the Conquest binos from the considerations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bird Watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2011 at 08:52
Originally posted by atomiclab atomiclab wrote:

My cousin and I were hunting mule deer in south east New Mexico a couple years ago and I had my (very cheap) Bushnell binos,  which I knew wasn't real good, but I didn't know how bad they are.

My cousin and I met up on top of a hill after much frustration, and not seeing much deer for 2 days.  We were doing a little glassing and my cousin tries to point out to me a group of doe.  I look with my binos and I don't see any.  After a lot of back and fourth and pointing and describing, he hands me his Leupold Acadia binos.  BAM!!! there they were.  They were OBVIOUS!  5 doe stand in the grass and amongst minor non-obstructing brush.  They were in the open.  Going back and fourth (bushnell, now Leupold, now bushnell now Leupold)  they are gone (bushnell) they're there (leupold)  
you get the point.

It was amazing!  I was Stareing at them through my binos and COULD NOT SEE THEM.
 
Makes me wonder if your lenses needed cleaning.  Wink 


Edited by Bird Watcher - November/19/2011 at 17:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2011 at 10:15
Originally posted by atomiclab atomiclab wrote:

I don't know if this will help explain what I am looking for when I ask about sharpness and brightness and clarity.
Ok, heres the story.

My cousin and I were hunting mule deer in south east New Mexico a couple years ago and I had my (very cheap) Bushnell binos,  which I knew wasn't real good, but I didn't know how bad they are.

My cousin and I met up on top of a hill after much frustration, and not seeing much deer for 2 days.  We were doing a little glassing and my cousin tries to point out to me a group of doe.  I look with my binos and I don't see any.  After a lot of back and fourth and pointing and describing, he hands me his Leupold Acadia binos.  BAM!!! there they were.  They were OBVIOUS!  5 doe stand in the grass and amongst minor non-obstructing brush.  They were in the open.  Going back and fourth (bushnell, now Leupold, now bushnell now Leupold)  they are gone (bushnell) they're there (leupold)  
you get the point.


It was amazing!  I was Stareing at them through my binos and COULD NOT SEE THEM.


hence my desire for the best binos I can afford.

I know this story has no measurable detail for glass comparison, but it is a story to tell what Im looking for and why Im looking for it.
This sounds like a fairly typical cheap optical crap trap.  It often happens as part of the learning curve Smile.  You can get good glass nowadays for not a lot of money, some of it even pretty inexpensive, but there is still a world of cheap crap out there that makes me wonder why it is sold.  Bushnell is their own worst enemy in this regard, IMHO.  So, we all understand wanting decent optics.
 
Now assuming the Bushnell you had was clean and properly adjusted, the ZEN ED 3 should blow away the Acadia almost as bad as the Acadia blew away your cheap Bushnell.  Same thing for a Kruger Caldera, the Meostar, or a Theron Wapiti APO-ED.   But in truth, the optical differences from the ED 3, Caldera, the Meopta, and the APO-ED are mostly akin to discussions of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"  If it can be seen with a binocular, these will find whatever it is.  If you can't see anything with these, the problem is not the binocular.  So if cash is tight heading int the Holidays, the ZEN, Kruger, or Theron will cost less money than the Meostar.  Just remember that ANY good binocular is a precision instrument, and you will have to become aware of that fact enough that you counter your own admitted tendencies to have stuff fall apart in your hands Smile.
 
EDIT to add:  It may well be a good idea to wait for the ZEN Prime HD.  I should get one a little early, and will post a review as soon as I can, but that is maybe still several weeks away.


Edited by Klamath - November/18/2011 at 10:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2011 at 21:24
Yes I kept my binoculars and lenses clean and clear of anything sticky, smudgy, or dirty. and they were adjusted as best as they could, diopter and focus.  I don't dislike bushnell as a whole, but the binos I have are crap.

also to my defense Im really not destructive.  Im afraid I have come across like a chimpanzee banging a pair of optics against a rock or something.

honestly I want what most people want, the best I can get.  The closest to alpha glass since I can't afford alpha glass.  

binos up to 800 to 900 dollars is a pretty big investment to me.  I just wan to make the best selection I can.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2011 at 21:33
Klamath,

I agree  I think I should wait and see what the new Zen-ray Prime will about.  

that or the HD MeOpta sounds like a good idea.  It doesn't look like the cabelas euro HD come in a 8 power, only 10 power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MeoptaSurujh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2011 at 03:40
The Cabela's Euro HD is now only available in a 10x42.  You will probably see a 12x50 HD version next as a progression from the original Euro 12x50.  Not sure on the time-frame yet though for the 12x50 HD.
Still hoping to get the Meostar B1 10x42 HD out and on shelves in the next few months.
Yes I work for Meopta, but I am not here to sell Meopta. Just answering questions and providing reasonable insight.
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