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Sako Forester .243 |
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dmarx
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: November/08/2011 at 02:22 |
Hi There
Please help. I recently purchased a sako forester .243. I have reloaded 303, 357 and have no problems with the rounds at all. I have a lee die set for reloading. The problem I am experiencing, is with the 243. Purchased rounds, are loading and ejecting just fine. The reloaded rounds, go in a little bit tight ( not too much of a concern though), the problem comes when I try to open the bolt.....It is almost impossible for me to get the bolt open after firing the round... Is there an extra die that needs to be used, other that the dies that remove the primer, size the cartridge, and seat the bullet ? (the standard 3 dies found in the lee die set). It's as though the cartridge is flaring, or extending, don't really know. Some people have said, I need to trim the cartridge, will this resolve the problem ? Please help !!!
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ccoker
Optics Master Joined: February/13/2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 2041 |
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Sounds like maybe too hot of a load
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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if they are going in a bit tight sounds like you may need to screw your FLS die in another half a turn or so. Doesn't sound like they are getting sized right.
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Crosswire
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/04/2008 Location: West NC Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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If you can easily chamber and extract an unfired round there is nothing wrong with your sizer but there is with your load.
You do understand how to properly work up a load while observing for signs of excessive pressure?
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Bigdaddy0381
MODERATOR Georgia peach Joined: February/27/2007 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 13682 |
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Give us more details of your load? are you trimming? FL sizing or neck? more details please.
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little cleo
Optics Apprentice Joined: March/23/2010 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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I'm right with the other here. But I also have the same caliber and gun and mine has a problem with Federal brass showing pressure 1 1/2 grs lower than others. I just don't load the Fed brass rounds very hot. Good luck
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Johnny
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/23/2010 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 99 |
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Federal brass is soft compared to the other brands in IMO. Is the bullet seated to the correct depth? Is it being jammed into the barrel with no "jump" before the rifling? This can cause pressure to be high. If the bolt handle lifts hard, you have too much pressure.
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Black Bear Road
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Were these rounds fired in another rifle? If so, you will probably want to buy a small base die to get them back to new brass spec.
Or like others have stated, you may need to bump the shoulder back a little more. |
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284winguy
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/20/2007 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Nice gun too, I'd go easy on the loads if they are on the warm side. Case prep is a major step with rifle reloading. You reduce problems if you start off with new brass for that rifle. Yes, I'd trim & do all the other steps. If you start with modest loads there shouldn't be a problem. I have a Sako Forester myself.
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gremcat
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/17/2012 Location: Raleigh NC Status: Offline Points: 99 |
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You could always measure the chamber and make certain your sizing right. I would definitely inspect the cases for flattened primers etc sounds to hot. I have found some of my guns prefer going slow as opposed to pushing them. If you are trying to push it too fast you are better off stepping up to a larger/faster caliber much better for the life of your rifle and a Sako is a heck of a gun to ruin.
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dmarx
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Thanks for all the assistance, turns out the chamber is oval in shape.
Bummer.....
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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You see where this is going... I'm sure you'd hate to have to sell a Forester. |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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dmarx
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Hi Alan
Thanks for that, I have one or two more questions though if you don't mind. The calibers that you were mentioning, are they freely available ? I am from South Africa, and to be honest, I have only heard of standard .243 rounds. Would I be form firing standard new 243 rounds, and then have to purchase a die set of one of the calibers you mentioned ? (If I went the ream route) also, would the points still be the same ? The second thing I keep on asking myself is, if the chamber is oval. Why do I struggle to remove only my loaded rounds, and not bought/first time fired rounds.. Surely if the chamber were oval, it should affect the bought rounds too ??? The chap I took it to reckons he knows a lot about guns, but I think I better get a second opinion from a professional about this, because I would never want to part with my Forester...
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ckk1106
Optics Master Joined: December/14/2007 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1439 |
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If it only happens with your reloads, I would guess it has to do with them. Have you loaded some rounds way down to determine that its definitely not a high pressure issue. Also try bumping the neck back a tad more.
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Do you have access to precision calipers? They can be inexpensive and will prove invaluable for hand loading. Measure your cases- once fired/ factory ammo, etc. If the chamber is oval, then your fired cases will be, also. If experiencing the problem only with reloads, suspect the reload. Hard bolt lift/extraction is a sure sign of overpressure. Some things to look for: a) case length... if case length is too long, the neck may be protruding into the leade into the lands and constrict the neck expansion during ignition, causing high pressure a-1) How do the fired hand loaded cases differ from the fired factory cases? a-2) How do unfired hand load cases differ from unfired factory cases? b) powder charge and primer- do you have the same problem with reduced loads? Tried a different primer? c) Are primers flattened, cratered, top- hat? Are ejector/extractor marks visible on fired cases? d) Do your fired cases appear oval, or bulged to one side, or overly bulged above the extractor groove? e) Is there a shiny ring appearing just forward of the case head/extractor groove? f) Do internet searches for warning signs of high pressure. The calibers mentioned are not off- the- shelf... the .243AckleyImproved is a basic .243 case with shoulder moved forward and shoulder angle changed and the .243)6mm)-'06 is formed from necked down .30-06 cases. 6mmWSM is a factory cartridge, but limited distribution. There are quite a few 6mm variants out there which could correct a (slightly) eccentric chamber. All would require re- chambering by a competent gunsmith and a new set of dies- which are often expensive themselves. From what you've told us, the rifle's chamber isn't the first "suspect" at this point. Since you asked about dies, one might infer that you have minimal experience as a hand loader. You will gain the most insight into your problem by first carefully inspecting and measuring your fired factory and hand loaded cases. Any hard info you can give us will help. Do you mind telling us the load you used which was producing the hard extraction-- primers/powder and grains/bullet- with weight in grs. and case brand? If you want, you can include info about case dimensions, too. If all else fails, you can seek a pro's help. However, the more that you do yourself at this point, the more you will increase your knowledge about all things rifle/hand loading. Many gunsmiths have Cerrosafe on hand. You can also buy it mail- order. Cerrosafe is a metal that is poured molten into the chamber and then allowed to cool and it then shrinks a tiny amount and can be tapped out of the chamber, thus allowing very accurate chamber measurements. As before, you can get about as much info as you need from measurements of your fired cases. A friend of mine once owned an old Savage model 99 in .308 that had the worst egg shaped chamber we had ever seen (still true after 30 yrs). All fired cases had a huge bulge and the cases were somewhat oval to the eye, but he did not experience difficulties with extraction. He named the rifle "Guppy". He traded that rifle a couple of times, but would always go trade for it back, it was so accurate and well, fun. |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Oh, forgot to tell you a couple of things...
First, Welcome to the OT forums dmarx and second- I am just some guy with no particular expertise, so double check any info given. As a matter of fact, even after all these years hand loading, I make mistakes and have posted some of them in these threads with hopes of maybe alerting others who maybe haven't yet made similar mistakes. see: http://www.opticstalk.com/primer-pocket-depth-and-uniforming_topic33262.html |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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dmarx
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Hi Alan
Wow.... Okay, I have to say thank you. You have given me a bit of homework, which I will gladly take on. And yes, by your standards I defintely am a beginner You will have to give me some time, I will get as much info together as possible and give you more hard facts. Kind Regards Desmond
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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So sorry- hope that wasn't too much information.
You're in winter, but I'm suffering from sun baked brain syndrome and can't stop typing. Or something. |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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tejas
Optics Journeyman Joined: March/08/2010 Location: Lone Star State Status: Offline Points: 575 |
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You aren't crimping are you? .243 doesn't really need it. For me at least, crimping hurts accuracy and causes a bit more pressure and therefore expansion.
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Stevey Ducks
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/03/2011 Status: Offline Points: 266 |
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Usually diffcult extraction is caused by excessive chamber pressure and that can be caused by several thing such as too much powder, incorrect powder, hot loads, jamming bullets into the rifling in combination with excessively hot loads.
If it is possible to close the bolt without excessive force chances are the the round is full length sized correctly and case length is not excessive especially after only one firing. Taking a look at the reloaded rounds that extracted with difficulty look at the case head for high pressure signs such as imprints of ejectors or extractor cuts, cratered primers, or case head expansion to the degree that primers fall out. Upon firing have the primers been blown loose from the primer pocket? All of this happens when chamber pressures approach 70,000 psi. Check to see if the rounds intended for reloading are the same length as factory rounds. I have never seen an oval or eliptical chamber but I guess almost anything is possible. Get a micrometer and measure cases for variations in radii. I put a small dab of wheel bearing grease on the faces of bolt locking lugs to prevent galling but that is no solution for excessive high pressure loads. Get help (gun smith) before firing any more of your hand loads. |
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