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The right rifle for bear protection... |
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JLud
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/30/2010 Location: Bettendorf, Iow Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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Posted: October/29/2011 at 21:32 |
My brother surprised the hell out of me today...he wants to buy a rifle...He is a small guy, who although isnt a hippie, is somewhat close....thus the surprise. Apparently he decided he wanted a short barreled, semi auto, 30-06 to take with a group hiking in alaska for self defense from bears.
He also mentioned possibly doing some elk hunting, surpising me again. Any suggestions for a rifle/caliber for this?
My thoughts were Browning BAR, go to a lever action something like Marlin 45/70 (concerned about recoil for him as hes pretty small framed), or possibly even a bolt like a Sako A7 or lower end Savage Edge. He doesnt want to break the bank, keep total set up under 1,000 with optics, rings, base, etc.
thanks
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That thing on the left....my old ride, some days I miss her.
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
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The ultimate BEAR fixer!
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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lucytuma
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: November/25/2007 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 5389 |
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Something in the 35 whelen would be my choice. The recoil is simular to the 30-06, I'd load it with a 250gr bullet. If at a later date he wants to hunt elk or deer a 200-225gr bullet shoots pretty flat.
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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Well, I have a 45/70 guide gun that I carry a lot hiking in griz country. Kicks like a mule with the Buffalo Bore 350 gr magnum rounds. But I let a guy shoot it that couldn't have weighed more than 120, and off hand he was fine.
Anyway, I would go something larger than the 30-06. Not a huge fan of the Whelen, but it could be a good choice in this case. If he wants it scoped, I would stay to a 1-4 or 1.5-6, or at most 2-7 for what he wants if for. |
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
GEORGE WASHINGTON |
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Dogger
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/02/2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Online Points: 8916 |
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Ditto what helo said. Garrett Hammerhead also a choice for stopping rounds. Can load down for smaller game.
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God save the Empire!
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lucytuma
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: November/25/2007 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 5389 |
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338 federal would also make a nice choice if he's considering a bolt gun, then again a 30-06 with a 220gr bullet is pretty decent medicine.
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
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Dan, if the bear is danger close, I want more than one round!
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Dogger
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/02/2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Online Points: 8916 |
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Since your brother's stated objective is bear defence while hiking, a heavy hard hitting calibre in a shorter handy rifle would be my prime consideration. Good recommendations above, and I can assure you if he is on the pointy end of a bear confontation recoil will not be an issue.
-it sounds like he does not have much experience in firearm handling so using lighter loads for lots of practice beforehand is advisable Edited by Dogger - October/30/2011 at 08:46 |
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God save the Empire!
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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458 Lott... "guaranteed to knock down anything that walks on the planet"...
I only need one...
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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Dogger
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/02/2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Online Points: 8916 |
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But that's you Dan, and it sounds like this fellow is very inexperienced!
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God save the Empire!
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Then this, 50 S&W, might be appropriate, but shooting experience is necessary with ANY firearm used for any type of defense. If one does not put in the time... probability of success is low...
Edited by Kickboxer - October/30/2011 at 09:08 |
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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JLud
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/30/2010 Location: Bettendorf, Iow Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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Thanks for all the input. Right now, im steering him toward the Marlin 1895 SBL in 45-70. He has done some shooting before, probably not above a 22 rifle and maybe some 20 gauge shotgun.
The SBL will give him stainless and laminate for durability, ghost ring sights included so should be good for 50 yds and in, rail to mount optics if he wants to later, and a nicer pachmeyer recoil pad. Think that and load some Hornady 300-350 grains, should be less then 12 gauge for him I am thinking.
If he would scope it, thinking either 1-4 or fixed 2.5 ish. Not sure if he should scope it when hes using it for defense, throw scope on if he ever does want to hunt.
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That thing on the left....my old ride, some days I miss her.
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lucytuma
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: November/25/2007 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 5389 |
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That'll work wonderfully!
Edited by lucytuma - October/30/2011 at 09:28 |
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
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JLud
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/30/2010 Location: Bettendorf, Iow Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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Bad part is ive talked myself into one for no reason at all, trying to find a nice priced one on gunbroker....im out of room in the safe, but this is also why i sell a lot of rifles that have been fired only a few times :)
Need to keep them all, my kids inheritance program. I wish to god that i could cash out 401k without penalty to buy all guns and ammo...should be tax deferred investments, much better then gold or silver....i would have the most kick ass safe room and weapons set up....i can picture it now. |
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That thing on the left....my old ride, some days I miss her.
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Dogger
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/02/2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Online Points: 8916 |
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Like your choice JLud.
My only other recommendation since this is only for protection right now is to leave the ghost rings on and forget the scope for this intended purpose. He's not hunting bear. Don't need the extra weight and more to go wrong in inexperienced hands, he can add the scope later if he broadens his needs. As noted from Dan, practice makes perfect and may reduce the need for him to change his underwear under stress!
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God save the Empire!
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anomad
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/23/2011 Location: Salt Lake City Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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Sounds like your brother may be growing up? You may have an opportunity here. I want two really different things for an elk hunt and bear swatter. I drug my mossberg mariner all over Alaska with me when I lived there. And even though I took good care of it, a bear gun has a rough thankless job. What about a 12 gauge with a short barrel for Alaska and a scope mount barrel for trying his hand at elk hunting? A bolt action rifle with iron sights would be my other choice, if I was really only going to have one gun. I'd put a scope on it for elk season. |
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anomad
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/23/2011 Location: Salt Lake City Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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No way I'd want a scope for a bear swatter. |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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Well 30-06 is considered the minimum caliber for a bear. The 30-06 will shoot a 220 gr bullet in a bolt action but you better ask about using the heavy bullet in a semi auto as most semi autos are designed for medium weight bullets.
The 338 Win Mag is the rifle of choice for hunting in Alaska it retains almost as much energy at long range as a 375 H&H which is the measuring stick of dangerous game calibers. Guns less powerful than 375H&H are not allowed for hunting dangerous game in most African countries.
The Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun is a lever action short powerful rifle designed specifically for self defense from Bears but it has plenty of recoil and is about a 160 yd rifle. Browning did make a semi auto 338 Win Mag and I happen to know that there is a used one at Scheels in West DesMoines (515) 727-4065 There are not very many of the 338 WM semi auto Brownings around. I ordered one in 1974 and it has not come in to this day so you might want to buy this one its in excellent condition. Also made in a 300 Win Mag version which gives about 300 ft per second faster delivery than a 30-06 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=257595046 One other really good possible is a DPMS AP4 .308 with 19 round magsEdited by Urimaginaryfrnd - October/30/2011 at 10:51 |
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JLud
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/30/2010 Location: Bettendorf, Iow Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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Think I know one of the managers at that Scheels, he used to be a pilot in my guard unit, should see if hes still there...thanks for the heads up, might be something to look at. Heading to Iowa soon anyways, will be going through Des Moines before too long. How much recoil we thinking on the semi 338? |
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That thing on the left....my old ride, some days I miss her.
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