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Zen Ray Prime HD |
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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Posted: September/24/2011 at 16:58 |
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Gentlemen,
My apologies. I posted some new reviews/comments about several models over on BF but did not copy/paste them to any other forums. Here is the first.
I was out at the Birding "fair" last weekend. While there I decided to check out all of the optics on hand. It appears that Zen Ray is planning on introducing a new model as per the 2012-2013 Zen Ray catalog that I now have in my hand. To quote the catalog:
Zen Ray Prime HD: Edge to Edge crisp, brilliant image thanks to one of the most sophisticated eyepiece designs on the market. Rugged magnesium chassis with a sleek, conventional hinge body design. 5 group/6 element eyepiece featuring a doublet field flattener lens system Extra Low Dispersion Glass to minimize color aberration 2nd Generation VividBrite Dielectric Coating CrystalView Lens Coating to repel oil and water Magnesium Allow Chassis 65 degree Field of View Phase corrected Bak4 prism 4 stage Metal Allow Twist up Eyecup Argon Gas Charged/O-ring Sealed 99.7% Light Transmission Rate at every glass surface/air interface with Fully Broadband Multicoating Transferrable Lifetime Warranty 8x42 28.5 ounce weight 6.1x5.0 inch dimenstions 6 foot close focus 425 foot field of view 20 mm of eye relief 56-74 mm IPD 10x42 same specs but with a 340 foot field of view I will try to see if I can take a pic of it in the catalog with my phone and upload it to this post. |
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Frank
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Bird Watcher
Optics Master Joined: August/30/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1523 |
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Are the 2012 catalogs available to the general public at this time?
Stan
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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As far as I know, yes. They were being given out at the Birding event. I have a few copies. If you want one then send me a PM and I can send it out.
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Frank
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Hitthespot
Optics GrassHopper Joined: May/21/2010 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Any rumors on a price point for these? I think I'm going to be in the market for something in the 8 x 40 8 x42 range soon.
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Klamath
Optics Master Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1308 |
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These will likely be in the $600-650 range. They will probably be available around the first of the year.
Keep in mind this represents a serious attempt by Zen Ray to sharpen the edge performance and to flatten the field in the ZEN ED series glass. This is a new design, as I think the ED 3 represents about what can be reasonably achieved with that design. So while they say edge to edge sharp, there will be a little pincushion distortion. They evidently don't want to get into the rolling ball problems some experience with the Swarovision. This is a different design from the SV as well, and is not an attempt to copy anything Swaro, as far as I can see. Looks like a differrent glass inside and out. Remember this is an effort to expand the quality of the Zen Ray offering up a notch.
The ED 3 is destined to remain in the lineup.
I'm really waiting to get my hands on one of these. Edited by Klamath - September/24/2011 at 21:56 |
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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron |
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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Just wanted to copy/paste this bit of information to this thread as I don't think it was mentioned previously.
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Frank
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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Sounds impressive. One thing I'm curious about: When they state 99.7% light transmission through each glass/air interface, doesn't that mean the total transmission is .997^n? (Where n is the number of interfaces). Looking at the right side of this diagram (about the only one I could find so maybe not representative of all roof-prism designs), I would count at least 10 (maybe more depending on how the prism set factors in...as many as 17):
So would total light transmission be something like 97% (.997^10) or is it even 95% (.997^17)? That is still quite good (as long as it's matched by resolution and contrast). But when reported that way, I think most readers would tend to gloss over the "per surface/air interface" and just see the 99.7%. |
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Reaction time is a factor...
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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Jono,
Your numbers appear accurate and, yes, I would agree that it can be a bit misleading when the various manufacturers say "99% light transmission" and don't always specify "per glass surface".
From what I have seen on the various forums and on some of the bino review sites the total light transmission numbers can range anywhere from the low 80's up into the mid 90's and, of course, that is going to vary at the different wavelengths of the light spectrum. The type of antireflective coatings and the prism coating on the roof prism (aluminum, silver, dielectric) play the largest role in this. Porros tend to have higher light transmission numbers as long as the antireflective coatings utilized are fairly modern.
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Frank
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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Frank, I've seen that with even cheap Porros. If the diagram I dredged up is anything to go by, the Porro by my count has 14 interfaces.
http://www.nikon.com/products/sportoptics/how_to/guide/binoculars/technologies/technologies_06.htm has a nice pair of animated diagrams showing the two types of prisms. Judging by that, I count 14 for Porros and 18 for roof prisms. So total light transmission for the Zen would be 94.7, which is more in line with what Swarovski claims for the EL series (91%). As mentioned, light transmission isn't the end-all be-all in optics. Even if a manufacturer publishes a total number, making it an apples-to-apples comparison, I'd still be looking at the overall package.
If the specs and Zen's previous models are anything to go by, I'm sure the overall package will be formidable, especially considering the price difference. I think it was Klamath not long ago who made the observation that the Vortex Razor HDs couldn't really compete with the ED3s anymore and they're much closer in price. |
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Reaction time is a factor...
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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Jono,
Truthfully I doubt the total light transmission number will be that high for the Prime. Most of the high end light transmission numbers I have seen from independent, 3rd party evaluators have the Alphas in the very high 80's and very low 90's. The Swaro number you posted seems accurate from what I remember reading. The Zeiss FL was the highest of the roofs from what I remember with a number around 93% for the Abbe-Koenig prism models and just a percentage point lower for the Schmidt Pechan prism designs. The Swaros weren't too far behind nor were the Leica Ultravids.
Compare those numbers with the Leica Trinovid or Nikon Premier LXL, both of which sported silver coated prisms. I believe their numbers were in the mid-low 80s.
You are, of course, correct. Total light transmission numbers don't really give the whole picture but they are a nice comparison piece for conversation. I do agree that the Prime HD should be one formidable binocular considering all of its listed features. Quality control is going to be the big hurdle for them to overcome particularly with the focusing feel/tension. Since the Prime HD isn't an open-bridge design I don't anticipate that being as much of an issue.
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Frank
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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On light transmission:
The numbers in marketing materials from just about any company are certifiable garbage, so you can comfortably ignore them. 99.7% is likely a number for a single material interface at some single unknown wavelength. The actual number of lens elements in Zen Prime HD is likely higher than in the diagram above, but we do not know which are cemented and which are air-spaced, so I would not put too much time into calculating total transmission (and a couple of percentage points of light transmission difference is virtually irrelevant anyway). Besides, there is also one reflective coating in the prism which is very important for color fidelity and overall performance (and which is where some manufacturers play interesting tricks). Either way, Prime HD sounds like a nice binocular and it will be interesting to see how it performs. ILya
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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Thank you for the info Ilya. I do hope you get your hands on one of the Prime HDs for review. I always enjoy reading your comments/perspective.
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Frank
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atomiclab
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/17/2011 Location: Tx Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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I am very excited to see the Zen Prime HD.
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lucytuma
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: November/25/2007 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 5389 |
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Getting to be that time of year, I'm excited to see what 2012 will bring us in new products.
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
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tedster
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/21/2011 Location: Muskegon,MI. Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Gen.27:3
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atomiclab
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/17/2011 Location: Tx Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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Tedster, several people have spoken about the lesser construction of zens. I know there were problems with a certain lot of ED2's. What do you think about the construction of you ED3's?
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Klamath
Optics Master Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1308 |
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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron |
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atomiclab
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/17/2011 Location: Tx Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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well said
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tedster
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/21/2011 Location: Muskegon,MI. Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Gen.27:3
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atomiclab
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/17/2011 Location: Tx Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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thats kinda what I was wanting to know. If the build/durability or over all construction was better on the ED3 from someone with experience with them.
I know the 8x43 ED3 would be a real good bino. Im just not there yet
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