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6mm Rem AI vs 243 vs 6mmX284

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tjtjwdad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2011 at 22:53
If it's only 380 yards that opens up a whole host of small caliber cartridges.  If it were me and accuracy is the opmost criteria, I would tend to look at 22, 243, 264, 284 and 308 size bullets because those are used in competitions and they all have prooved them selves. 
 
I would however, toss in a 20 cal, 204 Ruger using a 39 SBK and it is deadly accurate.  I'm easily knocking off chip munk size targets up to 450 yards and beyond.  Light zippy bullets get blown around more but heck, on an 8" target @ 380 yards, that shouldn't be a problem.
 
One other thing to consider as far as cartridge is whether this is all single shot or do you need a repeater?  I've heard and read, that some of the Ackley/WSSM/WSM/Rem SAUM style of cartridges don't always cycle very well.
 
I would go over to 6mmbr.com and check out that site.  There is a lot of good useful info posted there.  Still, though, nothing wrong with a 6mm Remington.  In my aersonal, nothing beats it in drop or drift out to 1000 yds.  If you're inclined to try an AR check out 6mmar.com 
 
HTH
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlv2k5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2011 at 23:11
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Originally posted by little cleo little cleo wrote:

I can't see the need at all for the .260 myself either.  Its in between two great claibers the 25-06 and the .270 Win which are both hands down better all around???????
Until you get past 500 yards...Then the 260 smokes them both. And does it in a short-action rifle, with less recoil and less powder burned...

Billyburl2: can you explain what you mean here, I am looking at factory loadings because I do not handload, but I cannot find a single factory loading where the .260 beats out the .270 win for energy or trajectory at 1000 yards. Perhaps I am looking at the wrong makers, but it looks to me like with the same bullets these two cartridges are roughly identical and in fact the .270 has a slight edge in all categories at 1000.

This is of course irrelevant to me, because I don't have anywhere I could possibly shoot a 1000 yards with a rifle even if I possessed the skill to do it well. So for me 500 yards is a more realistic distance to measure performance by. I imagine that is true for the majority of shooters as well, especially if the shots in question will be during hunting situations where I would probably bring that distance down to a 300 yard reasonable max for most people.
-Michael
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2011 at 10:31
My 223 wssm will shoot 55 grain vmax's at 3900 fps.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2011 at 10:47
What your drop at say 400yds on that ST?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2011 at 10:53
At my elevation it is about 15 inches.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2011 at 22:18
One of the reasons those bullets get over looked for target work is the BC's just aren't there when compared to the the ones I mentioned earlier.  As hunting bullets they're great.  You can go to jbmballistics.com and run the numbers and see.
 
One must remember, they is a difference between a hunting application vs a target application.
 
HTH  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2011 at 22:52
Originally posted by mlv2k5 mlv2k5 wrote:

Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Originally posted by little cleo little cleo wrote:

I can't see the need at all for the .260 myself either.  Its in between two great claibers the 25-06 and the .270 Win which are both hands down better all around???????
Until you get past 500 yards...Then the 260 smokes them both. And does it in a short-action rifle, with less recoil and less powder burned...

Billyburl2: can you explain what you mean here, I am looking at factory loadings because I do not handload, but I cannot find a single factory loading where the .260 beats out the .270 win for energy or trajectory at 1000 yards. Perhaps I am looking at the wrong makers, but it looks to me like with the same bullets these two cartridges are roughly identical and in fact the .270 has a slight edge in all categories at 1000.

This is of course irrelevant to me, because I don't have anywhere I could possibly shoot a 1000 yards with a rifle even if I possessed the skill to do it well. So for me 500 yards is a more realistic distance to measure performance by. I imagine that is true for the majority of shooters as well, especially if the shots in question will be during hunting situations where I would probably bring that distance down to a 300 yard reasonable max for most people.
Look at the wind-drift numbers. Drop and energy, to me at-least are constants. High b.c.'s and high sectional densities that help me buck the wind...That's where it's at to me. 
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2011 at 09:41
If max distance is 380, I too might recommend you start looking at smaller calibers than previously recommended.  A 39-gr 204 moving over 4,000 FPS is indeed a flat shooter.  It won't buck the wind great, but it gets out to 400 yards ricky tick.

Zak's article on the 6.5s is indeed a good read, but he is addressing pushing lead far beyond 400 yards.  For a 1,000-yard gun with relatively mild recoil and not a barrel-killer, 260 is a great option.  For a 400-yard laser, it wouldn't be my first choice.

I'd say spend time looking at 243 or 204.  There are 257 wildcats that shoot very well, but getting the right recipe can be challenging.

Forget the 260.  For what you want to do, it isn't the right choice.  (It isn't a terrible choice, but doesn't give you the advantage you seek.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlv2k5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2011 at 11:39
Billyburl: So I have been very curious about the .260 since reading your comments on its virtues and I have done a little research. I imagine you probably handload, and if so it appears that you can safely push the .260 well beyond factory ammunition which would likely account for the increased performance over the .270 that you spoke of.

However, if you are not handloading ammo to very hot specs, I have not found that to be the case. It seems factory ammo for the .260 is relatively scarce with the only widely available manufacturers being federal and remington each with a few different bullet and weight selections. With that said, the .270 winchester offerings from these same manufacturers clearly have a ballistic advantage in energy and drop all the way out to a 1000 yards from all the tables I have seen. 

The competition gets interesting when you look at perhaps the "best" factory loading for the .260 which is by CorBon and is a 139gr lapua scenar. This round has a muzzle velocity of 2750 and an extremely high ballistic coefficient, and does in fact yield a much flatter trajectory and more downrange energy than the other factory offerings.  However, if you compare this round to a 140gr SST .270 by Hornady you will still find that the .270 outperforms the .260 in drop  all the way to 1000 yards even with a 600 yard zero. In terms of energy, the trend is the same with the .270 leading all the way out to 900. The .260 finally slips past the .270 somewhere around 950 yards but at 1000 yards the difference is a paltry 14 ft/lbs. 

So I guess what I am saying is I can now see where you argument came from and I have a newfound interest in the .260 as a potential long distance caliber. However, for all practical purposes and especially if one does not handload I think the variety of bullet options and the superior performance out to 900 yards of the .270 is pretty hard to argue with if these two rounds are pitted against one another. While the .260 does have less recoil, the .270 win is not exactly a heavy kicker and I think one would be hard pressed to make an argument that the .260 is a superior caliber at least as factory loaded.

However, you can never have too many different toys so I say buy a rifle chambered in both!


-Michael
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tjtjwdad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2011 at 22:23
Is that 270 ammo some of that Hornady "Light Magnum" or "Superformance" ammo would it?  Just curious. 
 
Nothing wrong with a 270, a heck of a round with a lot of history behind it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2011 at 22:44
Yes I do hand load. And Hornady offers a 6.5 in 140 also. There is also 142gr. Sierra matchkings. The 270 is a great cartridge, not exactly my cup-of-tea, but it has accounted for a lot of game. When it comes to long-range, I.E., 800+ yards, the 6.5's, and 7mm rule the day. You can also look to Southwest ammo, for quality .260 ammo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2011 at 10:08
A few thoughts:

1.  http://www.southwestammunition.com/ , they make factory 260 ammo and it is quite good.

2.  The markets for the 270 and the 260 aren't entirely overlapping.  The 270 is almost exclusively a hunting caliber, the 260 hunts well but is a great competition caliber (for many reasons, some outlined below.)

3.  270 is a long action caliber, 260 is a short.

4.  Recoil from a 270 is dramatically more than that of a comparable 260.

5. 260 is not yet a "caliber for the masses" nor may it ever be; however, when pushed to the edge of its capabilities, ballistics are quite good.

6.  I've seen no 270 Win competition or tactical guns, and for good reason.


There is no magic bullet/gun.  I own 270 and 260 and favor each for different applications.

All that said, I am a 260 fan.  It shoots plenty flat, it maintains energy way out, bullet selection is great, and since I have been reloading 308 for many years, I am ready to roll on my own 260 reloads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2011 at 16:32
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

A few thoughts:

1.  http://www.southwestammunition.com/ , they make factory 260 ammo and it is quite good.

2.  The markets for the 270 and the 260 aren't entirely overlapping.  The 270 is almost exclusively a hunting caliber, the 260 hunts well but is a great competition caliber (for many reasons, some outlined below.)

3.  270 is a long action caliber, 260 is a short.

4.  Recoil from a 270 is dramatically more than that of a comparable 260.

5. 260 is not yet a "caliber for the masses" nor may it ever be; however, when pushed to the edge of its capabilities, ballistics are quite good.

6.  I've seen no 270 Win competition or tactical guns, and for good reason.


There is no magic bullet/gun.  I own 270 and 260 and favor each for different applications.

All that said, I am a 260 fan.  It shoots plenty flat, it maintains energy way out, bullet selection is great, and since I have been reloading 308 for many years, I am ready to roll on my own 260 reloads.
Well put...
 
On a different note to the OP, here is a youtube video of the 204 Ruger in action.  It's a very good small bore cartridge using non match grade bullets.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2011 at 05:27
I am also limited by my Rem700 bolt action, being a 308Win bolt.
 
I handed my caliber change application in today at our SAPS for a 6,5mmRemAI
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