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space_weazel
Optics Apprentice
Joined: February/28/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 55
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Topic: Glass Clarity Listing [Please Participate] Posted: June/11/2011 at 20:34 |
Ever wonder how people feel that the clarity of glass between scope lines compares?
My goal here is to try and create a anecdotal ranking to help people make better informed decisions, I would like to hear from people who have used these scopes so that we can be as realistic as possible, Please rank the scopes you have used as to their visual clarity as a whole, and to make it a little easier, on a 1-10 scale graduated in .25 points.
Feel free to add scope lines where you see fit, Rank them in order if you like or just assign a clarity value. I tried to compile a list of the most commonly asked about scopes and tried to include a wide price range so that people who may have been able to look through a couple of the lower end scopes could get an idea of what they are missing. I will come back through and try to compile everyones responses in to a spreadsheet and then post back the results after 30 days or once I can get a good number of responses
SS SS HD SS Variable Bushnell 3200 Bushnell 4200 Zeiss Conquest Zeiss Hensoldt Pride & Fowler RR600 IOR Tactical USO Nightforce Lupold Mk4 Lupold VX III Nikon Monarch X Weaver Tactical Trijicon Accupoint Swarovski Z3 Swarovski Z5 Vortex Viper Vortex Razer
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Big Sky
Optics GrassHopper
Joined: June/11/2011
Location: Billings
Status: Offline
Points: 5
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Posted: June/11/2011 at 22:17 |
Space Weazel,
This will be great info, especially if you get a lot of feedback from experienced peeps. B
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I love my God, I love my family, I love my guns. Why do I feel as if my Government is trying to take that and my money from me?
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4853
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 10:18 |
I gotta mention that a scope is the sum of all its parts, design and construction. Also consider that there are different scopes that will work well for one person or a rifle and its application(s) but maybe not for someone else or even across two different rifles. Even among top line scopes (of which only the Hensoldt is mentioned here...also S&B and Premier) where the glass is basically the same you have differences like the Hensoldt's very forgiving eye relief. On that subject, some scopes that have very good glass have noticeable tunneling at lower magnification or unreliable turrets. Others have drawbacks like weighing a ton.
What kind of shooting do you do? What's your budget? If you really get to thinking about it, it's always better to work from your goals back into the specs of various optics to see which will be the best fit rather than starting with one facet of a scope. You can't separate the application or the whole scope from the equation.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR
Moderator
Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 10:45 |
Sorry SW, I cannot in conscience contribute to this. I just don't think it is worthwhile.
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR
Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 11:12 |
Hensoldt - 10
BSA, Countersniper, NC Star - 0
There was a similar endeavor in 2010 and 2009, everyone disagreed with everyone else, it didn't go particularly well.
The most knowledgeable folk aren't going to contribute much (probably) - due to the complexity of the answer and the simplicity of the question.
My advice: find an optics expert with no ax to grind, read his/her reviews, act accordingly.
Or put a Hensoldt on everything and call it a day.
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Freedom is something you take. Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given.
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Rich Coyle
Optics Apprentice
Blind as a bat
Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 11:34 |
space_weazel,
Since I thoroughly enjoy comparing optics, I can give an objective view of the scopes I have for clearness. After looking through them at various ranges on many occasions at line charts or printed words, I have found the following rankings for day light use. There is a fun revelation I discovered: Even the Tascos are plenty good for normal day light hunting.
10 - NightForce 12-42X56
9 - Bushnell 6500 4 /12-30X50
9 - Swarovski z5 5-25X52
8 - Weaver 6-24X40
8 - Leupold VX-III 6 1/2-20X50
8 - Bushnell 4200 6-24X40
7 - Sightron II 3-15X40
6 - Pentax Game Seeker 4-16X50
6 - Tasco World Class 4-16X40
6 - Tasco 2 1/2-10X40
If we include low light use, the Nightforce is still number one, but the Swarovski jumps to number two.
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR
Moderator
Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 13:00 |
Exactly what "objective" measurement devices/measures were used in the "comparison" you made, Rich?
Any comparison made with human eyes, experiences, knowledge is SUBJECTIVE by its very nature.
I will not attempt explain to you what would be required to perform an objective assessment.
Reason is NOT automatic...
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Joined: May/07/2009
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 3416
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 14:23 |
Rich,
I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread.
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-Matt
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bugsNbows
Optics God
bowsNbugs
Joined: March/10/2008
Location: North Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 11201
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 14:30 |
Rancid Coolaid wrote:
Hensoldt - 10
BSA, Countersniper, NC Star - 0
There was a similar endeavor in 2010 and 2009, everyone disagreed with everyone else, it didn't go particularly well.
The most knowledgeable folk aren't going to contribute much (probably) - due to the complexity of the answer and the simplicity of the question.
My advice: find an optics expert with no ax to grind, read his/her reviews, act accordingly.
Or put a Hensoldt on everything and call it a day.
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My S&B ain't half-bad either! LOL
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If we're not suppose to eat animals...how come they're made of meat? Anomymous
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4853
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 15:01 |
Bitterroot Bulls wrote:
Rich,
I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread.
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So does he.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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tahqua
MODERATOR
Have You Driven A Ford Lately?
Joined: March/27/2006
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9042
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 15:08 |
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Doug
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Rich Coyle
Optics Apprentice
Blind as a bat
Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 15:40 |
Kickboxer wrote:
Exactly what "objective" measurement devices/measures were used in the "comparison" you made, Rich?
Any comparison made with human eyes, experiences, knowledge is SUBJECTIVE by its very nature.
I will not attempt explain to you what would be required to perform an objective assessment.
Reason is NOT automatic... | By objective, I mean the optics are not pointed at a bush or a tree. when I did that the Bushnell looked as good as the Nightforce; which it is not by a long stretch. By using a line chart of some kind, I am able to repeat the test and get the same results without looking at the brand of the scope. I have a few hunting buddies who come to the same conclusion about the optics that I do. After all, the original poster did post something about anicdotal. I hope that helps understand what I am saying.
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Rich Coyle
Optics Apprentice
Blind as a bat
Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 15:42 |
Bitterroot Bulls wrote:
Rich,
I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread. | I am curious how much this adds to the thread. Can someone enlighten me?
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight
Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 16:00 |
Conjecture statistics do not address the truthfulness of the statement, just the probability that the next answer will be within a range of the given Null Hypothesis. Your test would be meaningless.
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I love little league baseball-- it keeps the kids out of the house Yogi Bera
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 4015
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 16:40 |
What it boils down to, every-bodies eyes are a bit different. Especially when it comes to subject of something as vague as "clarity". There are some very well written reports on most of the scopes mentioned, but they all come down to one man's opinion of one sample of that particular scope.
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Rich Coyle
Optics Apprentice
Blind as a bat
Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 16:57 |
billyburl2 wrote:
What it boils down to, every-bodies eyes are a bit different. Especially when it comes to subject of something as vague as "clarity". There are some very well written reports on most of the scopes mentioned, but they all come down to one man's opinion of one sample of that particular scope. | Perfect asessment of reports, no matter who does it. To me getting a bunch of guys together and comparing notes while looking at the same target item through the same scopes tells us potential buyers more than a leb test.
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 4015
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 17:04 |
Not necessarily. If the viewing was done as a blind test, then maybe... The power of persuasion is indeed powerful. Especially when it comes to things like brand recognition.
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Joined: May/07/2009
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 3416
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 18:08 |
Rich Coyle wrote:
Bitterroot Bulls wrote:
Rich,
I wish I could have seen the excitement in your face when you saw this thread. |
I am curious how much this adds to the thread. Can someone enlighten me? |
I was trying to add some humor to the thread.
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-Matt
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight
Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 18:36 |
The conjecture statistic changes with the group sampled. Ask which scope would make the best hunting scope for around $500 on 23 1/2 campfire and you could predict within 80% (maybe higher) the answer would be Leo. Same question here would probably at 80% might be something like conquest. Nether answer has "truth" just the statistic that group would pick a certain model or brand. Useless.
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I love little league baseball-- it keeps the kids out of the house Yogi Bera
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Rich Coyle
Optics Apprentice
Blind as a bat
Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
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Posted: June/12/2011 at 19:55 |
Dale Clifford wrote:
The conjecture statistic changes with the group sampled. Ask which scope would make the best hunting scope for around $500 on 23 1/2 campfire and you could predict within 80% (maybe higher) the answer would be Leo. Same question here would probably at 80% might be something like conquest. Nether answer has "truth" just the statistic that group would pick a certain model or brand. Useless. | This makes perfect sence. That's why you get a group of shooters and a group of optics and have them all look through them till each person decides which they like best. There used to be a guy on 24hour who had three guys doing his tests. Alas there was so much animosity that he left.
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