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Help / Tips MOA or MRAD bases and the best scopes.

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338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 10:21
I do run the SS 10x, SS 16x, and SS10xHD.

I am not bashing them when I say this.

I believe the Sightron Glass to be better (thank you ILya Koshkin), while they do not have quite the adjustment range they are the closest second for the money.  They seem to hold up well and return and are true adjustments.

You will never be able to be the Dollars Spent for the quality you get with the adjustment range of the SWFA SS any variety. 

As is over preached but still under rated and has not reached enough of the public yet, possibly a write up in one of the TOP GUN MAGAZINES, hint, hint, hint... could make them more widely recognized.

I am still looking for other ideas, I am looking into the PinLock system of the Barretts and just might get a few sets to tinker with, the adjustable MOA or rather fixed choice of 15 MOA or 40 MOA or 20 MOA or 30 MOA is a very neat idea if it is executed properly...


Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - April/16/2011 at 10:23
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billyburl2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 10:32
What I was saying is, what if you take the rail and scope you are running and mount the rail backwards. This is the only way I can see adding to the internal adjustment of the scope(non-adjustable). The Sightron has close to 130 MOA, right? Thus if you turn your 20 MOA rail around it will have 150 MOA. Getting it zero a close range might be a pain, but it might get you to your stated goal of 500 yards.
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 10:52
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

What I was saying is, what if you take the rail and scope you are running and mount the rail backwards. This is the only way I can see adding to the internal adjustment of the scope(non-adjustable). The Sightron has close to 130 MOA, right? Thus if you turn your 20 MOA rail around it will have 150 MOA. Getting it zero a close range might be a pain, but it might get you to your stated goal of 500 yards.


How would this work again???

These shots require your barrel to be aimed at the blue sky and the scope to be aimed at the ground.

How will reversing the base allow this?

think base is diagonal line and two horizontals are barrel while circle is target, the top is correct the bottom is what you are suggesting...



Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - April/16/2011 at 10:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 11:05
Ok, correct me if I am wrong... A canted base works by artificially raising the rear of the scope, thus allowing you to adjust your zero higher on the erector. Since "up" is "down" on the target. If you turn the base around, raising the front of the scope, it will lower the target on the erector. 
  I am not saying it will allow you to dial in the adjustments, but rather a built-in hold-over. I don't know if it will work, just something that crossed my mind due to the fact of all the "I can't get my rifle to zero at 100yd" threads.
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 11:10

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 11:23
If you mount it as illustrated in #2&4, it would be the same as using the mil-dots under center as hold over, correct? You would use more of the erector tube, but it might get your there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 11:37



Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - April/16/2011 at 11:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 11:44
Think of it as your barrel has to be pointed upwards in the air to make it go up and your scope has to pointed downwards to see the impact.

You cannot point your barrel downwards and scope upwards...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 11:52
What I am saying is that there is no way to add to the internal adjustment of the scope. If it has 130MOA, that is all it is ever going to have. And finding one with more than the scopes you already own is going to be difficult and expensive. If you turn the base around, to where the thick part of the base is forward, you can point the scope up, and the barrel down. This will allow you to dial "down" to your 500yd target, rather than "up" to get there. At closer ranges it might force you to hold under the target, but at closer ranges wind is not as important making this an easier task.
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 12:11
Billy, you lost me there for a minute.

The point to clarify is that no matter the cant in the base (or none), 120MOA on the scope is all the 120 MOA will ever be.  You can take part of the 120MOA back with a canted rail, biasing your adjustment range to allow more free adjustment for elevation (since you almost never need the opposite of elevation - except during zero.)

The only way to get the full 120MOA in elevation is to either get a 60MOA base or shim a lesser base - both pose challenges.


This all goes into the "extreme situations" category and I don't shoot there.  Sorry I cannot be of more help.  Creativity was never my strength.

I am fairly sure turning that base backwards won't fix the problem.

I've never checked, but are the holes in the base symmetric?  If not, you'd need to drill new holes, which might ruin a perfectly good base.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 12:28
I was trying to add to the internal adjustment of the scope with the use of the base. But as usual, when I try to get creative, I am flat wrong! Also RC, you are correct in the fact that the rail for this rifle is not symmetrical. Disregard all previous comments.Bucky 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 12:32
Billy, you are off on the base orientation.

A 20MOA base is already set-up to add 20MOA to the amount of available "up" scope adjustment.  If you reverse the base, it takes away 20MOA.

Think about it this way: you have a scope with a total of 100MOA of adjustment range.  If you mount it perfectly on a standard base, you will end up with 50MOA available "up" and 50MOA available "down".

If you swap the base out for a 20MOA base, you end up (if everything aligns perfectly), with 70MOA of available "up" and 30MOA of available "down".   

If you reverse the base, you will end up with less available "up" adjustment, which is worse for long range shooting.

What 338 needs to do, is the following:
-Get a Sightron S3 6-24x50 with 100MOA of total adjustment and MilDot reticle.
-Get a reasonably affordable 20MOA or thereabouts base (it sounds like he already has that)
-Get a pair of Burris Signature Zee rings (30mm models come with a couple of offsets that give you an option of building in another 20MOA: 10MOA via the rear ring and another 10MOA via the front ring).  These rings do not look tactical, but they work well.

Set all that up on the gun and go shooting.  Figure out exactly how much "up" you have and and how much "down" you have left.

If that turns out to be not enough (and it sounds like it won't be, but I can't make any sense of the original post so I am not sure), you go and acquire a set of scope base shims from Burris:
And start adding them one at a time.
Add one, re-assemble the whole thing up again and go shooting.  With the shim(s) in, you are unlikely to be able to use the central crosshair for a 100yard zero.  What you will have to do is set up one of the mildots below the crosshair as your 100 yard zero and transition to aiming with the center crosshair at some appropriate distance a little further out.

Once you figure out how many shims you need (probably two, but every case is slightly different), get the whole base/shim contraption properly bedded to the receiver, so that there is not bending stress on the one piece base.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 12:48
Turning the base backward will produce exactly the opposite of the effect you are looking for.  Pay close attention to 338's drawings and to what RC said.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 13:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 13:38
Thank you all for your patience as I stumbled through this thread! It has definitely been informative for me at least.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 13:45
It is a challenge but can be resolved...





Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - April/16/2011 at 13:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 13:55
[QUOTE=338LAPUASLAP]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2011 at 14:08
I try to simplify it but really complex it I know. 

The 60gr subs are dirty and smelly and feed in SA a little crooked at times but they are some of the nicest sniper/training rounds around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2011 at 11:38
Ok so I am going two different ways with this.

I do have two different sub Guns in .308Win,

CZ 550 1:10 Twist 18" barrel - shoots 150gr-200gr

Savage 10 SA Flat Receiver 1:9 Twist 16.75" barrel - shoots 200gr-240gr

Both will have Sightron SIII scopes and 20 MOA bases.

I am going to try the Burris Solution and the Barrett Solution both Giving me 40MOA if Possible more.

With the Scope having 100-120MOA depending on selection, the base having 20MOA and the rings having 40 MOA I should be close and use the Hold under for the closer shots...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2011 at 15:00
These are the BURRIS RINGS AND SHIMS AS WELL AS OFFSETS











THIS IS THE LITTLE BEEFER 40MOA base from BARRET Back hole gives 40 MOA front hole gives 15 MOA...





YRDS

MOA

 

MOA

MOA

 

MRAD

MRAD

MRAD

 

INCHES

 

0.25

0.125

 

INCHES

0.1

0.05

100

1.047197551

1MOA

0.261799388

0.130899694

1MRAD

3.6

0.36

0.18

200

2.094395102

1MOA

0.523598776

0.261799388

1MRAD

7.2

0.72

0.36

300

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