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Zeiss Conquest

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Tip69 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2011 at 21:28
Echo - have you looked thru a Conquest?
take em!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 270XBolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2011 at 23:32
Originally posted by EchoWhiskeyOne EchoWhiskeyOne wrote:

This is the second time that I have been a point and a click away from buying a Conquest in the past couple months and the second time that I am sitting here having a VERY hard time in justifying all the extra cost for the Conquest compared to the 4200 when I hear SO often about how close they are in optical clarity, etc.  Their field of view, roughly the same.  Their exit pupil, roughly the same.  The weight goes to the 4200 because it's lighter.  Eye relief to the Conquest, but I've never come close to getting hit with a 4200.  Elites come with a mail in coupon for a free $130 rain suit for those of you who DO sit in daily rain storms Wink.

The additional features of the 4200 that aren't needed every day, such as the Rainguard are still there, regardless, and the Conquest is lacking in that department.  And I have never felt like I was looking down a paper towel tube looking through my 4200...I've always thought that it was a very nice view, especially for the money invested in it and I had thought that the general audience agreed that it's a good piece; far better than looking through a paper towel tube?

I guess I'm just torn and even worse this time than the last.

I really like the concept of owning a Conquest, I just am having a hard time believing that it is really worth $150+ more than a 4200.  If the comparison were the Fulfield II (which is roughly the same price as a 4200 with the current sales, odd as that is) vs. a Conquest, I would go Conquest hands down, mainly because I have looked through Fulfield IIs and they aren't comparable to a 4200 optically...but the 4200, from everything I hear is so close to the Conquest that I just end up feeling like I burnt a lot of brain cells comparing the two.

It is hard to describe what I mean by looking down a cardboard paper towel roll.  If you and I were physically looking at one I could show you what I mean.....once I pointed this out to a couple friends they agreed with me.  For me it was more distracting than anything else.  The actual image through a 4200 is great...but for me I could not get used to it.  Maybe I got one that was defective.
At the price the 3-9x40 4200's are going for, I must admit I have been tempted to pick one up for a future rifle.  

For me though, the Conquest was worth the extra $$$.  To me the Conquest has a better reticle...especially in low and bright light.  IMO the eye relief on the Conquest is less critical than the 4200.  For me that is important on a big game hunting rifle that I may be forced to shoot at odd angles with, shoot quickly with, and even shoot weak handed with.  I could not have done this as easy with the 4200.  Is it worth the extra money??? For me it was, however YMMV. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vermin93 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 01:19
I love my Conquest, but if money was tight I would get the 4200 (or maybe try to stash a dollar a day until deer season and then get the Conquest).

I think the Conquest plex reticle is noticeably better than the 4200 plex reticle, especially for low light. The reticle is probably the main thing that would seal the deal for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EchoWhiskeyOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 04:38
Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

Echo - have you looked thru a Conquest?

No, that's why I'm so messed up right now!

I hate buying something that I haven't had any time to look over, even if it's only a $350-400 investment, and none of the shops/venders in my area carry Zeiss products...none that I have been able to find anyway.

With the 4200, the choice was easy.  I had OT testimonies, but my local gun shop carries them and I was also able to compare it to everything that they had and it was a no-brainer to order one...and a second, too.

Funny...some of the local places carry your traditional optics, such as Nikons and Bushnells of all kinds, Burris, Weavers, Tasco, etc...then they jump ALLLL the way up to Swarovski Z3, 5 and 6 and have NOTHING in between to satisfy the mid-range customers.

I would have obviously bought a Z3, but my budget isn't $900 for a hunting scope...it's about $400ish, mainly because I have no need for a scope of that caliber (though I sure would love one!).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EchoWhiskeyOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 04:45
Originally posted by Vermin93 Vermin93 wrote:

I love my Conquest, but if money was tight I would get the 4200 (or maybe try to stash a dollar a day until deer season and then get the Conquest).

I think the Conquest plex reticle is noticeably better than the 4200 plex reticle, especially for low light. The reticle is probably the main thing that would seal the deal for me.

Money isn't really the issue.  I already have it budgeted to spend.  I just wish that there was a place around here that sold them so that I could fumble around with one a little bit...that is what put me over the top with my 4200s. 

I also don't care for the plex on the 4200, though it hasn't ever given me any issues.

In another thread, I describe the Hunter Wicked Optics scope that I have recently put on my .300 WSM.  I got that scope for $190 and it, too, has a far better plex reticle on it than my 4200.  Oh and it's standing up to that magnum recoil just fine, for any of you that have read my review of the scope and might be wondering if it's the real deal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EchoWhiskeyOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 04:57
Originally posted by WYcoyote WYcoyote wrote:

It is a tough call, I have them both and most all the advice has been spot on.
If $$$ is fairly tight get the Elite and feel good about it, because the Conquest isn't a whole lot better, as Pyro stated there are trade offs.
Another option may be to get them both, compare them side by side, make your choice and sell the other. Both are very desirable in like new condition and hold resale value well. You probably won't take too bad a beating and have the scope you like best for sure.

But don't you think that paying that much more money for one or the other, knowing still that there are trade offs, is kind of...counterproductive?  For $150 less, you would expect the 4200 to lack in some areas compared to the Conquest, but not vice versa. 

In my mind, paying more for something triggers something in my brain that says "This product should be better in every way if it costs that much more."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 308 Sav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 05:25
Originally posted by EchoWhiskeyOne EchoWhiskeyOne wrote:

Originally posted by WYcoyote WYcoyote wrote:

It is a tough call, I have them both and most all the advice has been spot on.
If $$$ is fairly tight get the Elite and feel good about it, because the Conquest isn't a whole lot better, as Pyro stated there are trade offs.
Another option may be to get them both, compare them side by side, make your choice and sell the other. Both are very desirable in like new condition and hold resale value well. You probably won't take too bad a beating and have the scope you like best for sure.

But don't you think that paying that much more money for one or the other, knowing still that there are trade offs, is kind of...counterproductive?  For $150 less, you would expect the 4200 to lack in some areas compared to the Conquest, but not vice versa. 

In my mind, paying more for something triggers something in my brain that says "This product should be better in every way if it costs that much more."



That is not the way things work. Take tools for example. A saw made for a homeowner that needs to do a few projects around the house and a saw that a carpenter will use everyday for hrs on end has many different features and workmanship. The one for the homeowner might be more ergonomically made and lighter. It might have a cool laser to aid in cutting. The one for the carpenter will be heavy and bulky.  There are trade offs for everything. that cheaper saw that will get used for maybe 40 hrs total for the home owner is well worth the 50 dollar price. Is the 160 dollar price worth it to the homeowner who to have one that can last 100 life times for him.

There are so many different components and features within a scope that one may be lacing in and area or materials but more than made up for in other workmanship or materials that the cost is higher to make. As has been stated many times, with optics a 10% increase in glass may cost cost you 30 to 40 percent more in price.

Frankly, it does not matter. It sounds like you want someone to definitively give you an answer on here if you should get it. That is up to you. Some will think it is well worth the extra money and many like you would have a hard time justifying the extra cost. Only you can answer that.
Gerald Baker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EchoWhiskeyOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 07:55
Originally posted by 308 Sav 308 Sav wrote:

Originally posted by EchoWhiskeyOne EchoWhiskeyOne wrote:


In my mind, paying more for something triggers something in my brain that says "This product should be better in every way if it costs that much more."

That is not the way things work. Take tools for example. A saw made for a homeowner that needs to do a few projects around the house and a saw that a carpenter will use everyday for hrs on end has many different features and workmanship. The one for the homeowner might be more ergonomically made and lighter. It might have a cool laser to aid in cutting. The one for the carpenter will be heavy and bulky.  There are trade offs for everything. that cheaper saw that will get used for maybe 40 hrs total for the home owner is well worth the 50 dollar price. Is the 160 dollar price worth it to the homeowner who to have one that can last 100 life times for him.
 
I think that, in more words, you just said exactly what I did?  The homeowner's and the carpenter's tools do roughly the SAME thing, only the carpenter's tool costs more because it is more durable and longer lasting...that makes perfect sense to me to pay more for something that will last 3 or 4 times, or MORE, as long as another product.  Laser, in this case, is a moot point, though ti is more than likely in place to assist novice, do-it-yourselfers get the job done; something that isn't needed by a professional carpenter...especially if it is going to outlast the saw. 
 
Is there evidence out there that supports Conquests being a tougher, longer lasting scope than the 4200, or does it merely have slightly better glass?  Lastly, there is nothing on or about a 4200 that is in place for novice hunters.  Rainguard is just a simple implementation for EVERY hunter to use in foul weather whether you hunt out of a blind or trek miles into the woods, through creeks/rivers, up ravines, in torrential downpours, etc. 
 
$30-40 extra in cost to offset the better glass in the Conquest compared to the 4200 I could do...$150 plus is kind of hard to swallow given how closely they are revered to each other in optical performance.


Edited by EchoWhiskeyOne - March/17/2011 at 08:24
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Tip69 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 09:03
At this point - just get another 4200.
take em!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 270XBolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 09:06
Originally posted by EchoWhiskeyOne EchoWhiskeyOne wrote:

Originally posted by 308 Sav 308 Sav wrote:

Originally posted by EchoWhiskeyOne EchoWhiskeyOne wrote:


In my mind, paying more for something triggers something in my brain that says "This product should be better in every way if it costs that much more."

That is not the way things work. Take tools for example. A saw made for a homeowner that needs to do a few projects around the house and a saw that a carpenter will use everyday for hrs on end has many different features and workmanship. The one for the homeowner might be more ergonomically made and lighter. It might have a cool laser to aid in cutting. The one for the carpenter will be heavy and bulky.  There are trade offs for everything. that cheaper saw that will get used for maybe 40 hrs total for the home owner is well worth the 50 dollar price. Is the 160 dollar price worth it to the homeowner who to have one that can last 100 life times for him.
 
I think that, in more words, you just said exactly what I did?  The homeowner's and the carpenter's tools do roughly the SAME thing, only the carpenter's tool costs more because it is more durable and longer lasting...that makes perfect sense to me to pay more for something that will last 3 or 4 times, or MORE, as long as another product.  Laser, in this case, is a moot point, though ti is more than likely in place to assist novice, do-it-yourselfers get the job done; something that isn't needed by a professional carpenter...especially if it is going to outlast the saw. 
 
Is there evidence out there that supports Conquests being a tougher, longer lasting scope than the 4200, or does it merely have slightly better glass?  Lastly, there is nothing on or about a 4200 that is in place for novice hunters.  Rainguard is just a simple implementation for EVERY hunter to use in foul weather whether you hunt out of a blind or trek miles into the woods, through creeks/rivers, up ravines, in torrential downpours, etc. 
 
$30-40 extra in cost to offset the better glass in the Conquest compared to the 4200 I could do...$150 plus is kind of hard to swallow given how closely they are revered to each other in optical performance.

Sounds like you are sold on the 4200 and if you paid extra cash for the Conquest it would bug the crap out of you.  I'm kind of going through the same thing right now with a new bow.  I'm looking at a new one right now that shoots 335 feet per second when my 5 year old Hoyt "only" shoots 315.  Will the new bow kill deer any better than the older one since it is only 20 fps faster?  It's a choice only I can make. 

BTW, if you watch the Samplelist and other websites you can find some good deals on the Conquest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EchoWhiskeyOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 09:20
Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

At this point - just get another 4200.
 
DANG, folks are beginning to give up on me! Wink LOL
 
I hope that I'm not being a pain in anybody's arses.
 
I'm a very black and white kind of guy and need things spelled out for me, so I apologize to anybody that finds that offensive...I must have gotten it from my dad!
 
Gray areas confuse/fluster me and I am just seeing a lot of gray area between the "Yes, buy it, they are worth its" to the "the Conquests aren't THAT much betters" to the "each has its trade-offs", etc.
 
Between the additional $150 in cost for the Conquest and the $25+ I will have to spend on another box of ammo to re-sight my .280 at the range, mounts for his rifle and the shipping for all three (total approx $450+/-), I could get out the door for right around $250+/- for a 4200, mounts + shipping for him and he still end up with the best scope of his lifetime and keep my .280 shooting 3/4" groups with cheap ammo.  That is black and white to me!  Yippee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EchoWhiskeyOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 09:23
Originally posted by 270XBolt 270XBolt wrote:

Sounds like you are sold on the 4200 and if you paid extra cash for the Conquest it would bug the crap out of you.  I'm kind of going through the same thing right now with a new bow.  I'm looking at a new one right now that shoots 335 feet per second when my 5 year old Hoyt "only" shoots 315.  Will the new bow kill deer any better than the older one since it is only 20 fps faster?  It's a choice only I can make. 

BTW, if you watch the Samplelist and other websites you can find some good deals on the Conquest.
 
I think that you're right!  I guess that I'm kind of a tightwad!
 
Bolded statement is good advice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 16:47

Assuming you could actually afford both, buy the one you would if they were the same cost.  Ten years from now the $150 difference will seem pretty silly if in fact you like the Conquest better.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 17:38
There are a lot more advantages to the Conquest than "slightly better glass."  For one, the Conquest has much better eye relief, and a much more forgiving "eye box."  The Conquest also has an excellent etched reticle that is properly dimensioned for hunting.  The Conquest carries a great warranty to boot. The warranty difference alone is worth the money to me.

The Conquest is the better scope, period.  The only advantage to the Bushy is the Rainguard, and that becomes a wash with proper lens caps.

It is amazing this thread has gone on as long as it has when you found a Conquest for $310.

-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WYcoyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 18:41
Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

It is amazing this thread has gone on as long as it has when you found a Conquest for $310.

 
True, that's a great price, but I just recieved a flyer that lists the 4200 at $179.99.
This is a common problem in buying optics. Is the better scope worth the X # of $$$ ?
OP, you already have the Bushnell, and the Zeiss is bugging the crap out of you.
Just buy it and then you'll know for sure. As I said before, these are popular scopes and hold their resale value, so it won't be the end of the world if it doesn't trip your trigger. Heck, I might buy it from you.
 It'll be OK.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2011 at 21:41
You are not being a pain and we haven't given up on you.  It just sounds to me that the dfference in the two scopes isn't enough to you to warrant the extra $$.  You already seem to have buyers remorse and yet you haven't even bought it yet.
 
At some point, you will have an opportunity to look thru a Conquest.  At that time, you'll know if it is worth the extra $$ and you can buy it.  Till then, get another 4200 and enjoy it!
take em!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EchoWhiskeyOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2011 at 05:02
Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

It is amazing this thread has gone on as long as it has when you found a Conquest for $310.

I WISH!  Unfortunately an "error" occurred somewhere along the lines and the price was actually $350.

Thanks for your breakdown between the two. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote medic52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2011 at 06:11
I tell you what buy the conquest you won't regret it, heck if you don't like it you won't have any problems selling it to someone here I GUARANTEE that.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kyblev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2011 at 08:52
I was in the same position you are in now about a month ago.  I was shopping for a scope to take Elk hunting.  I looked at Leupolds, Vipers and Nikons.  Never even entered my mind to look at Zeiss.  Well I finally got a chance to look and handle all the above mentioned scopes and ended up settling on the Zeiss Conquest (4,5-14X44 w/ Rapid-Z).  I do hope I made the right decision.  So far I'm really pleased with the scope and how good the glass is in low light conditions and it seems really well made.  My only dislikes are the cheap plastic turret covers.  All the above mentioned scopes are good ones.  But I do think you will like the Zeiss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2011 at 08:56
Originally posted by kyblev kyblev wrote:

I was in the same position you are in now about a month ago.  I was shopping for a scope to take Elk hunting.  I looked at Leupolds, Vipers and Nikons.  Never even entered my mind to look at Zeiss.  Well I finally got a chance to look and handle all the above mentioned scopes and ended up settling on the Zeiss Conquest (4,5-14X44 w/ Rapid-Z).  I do hope I made the right decision.  So far I'm really pleased with the scope and how good the glass is in low light conditions and it seems really well made.  My only dislikes are the cheap plastic turret covers.  All the above mentioned scopes are good ones.  But I do think you will like the Zeiss.

maybe you could buy some kenton industries knobs for it???
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