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hexcentric1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: February/25/2011 at 01:31
Hi, another what should I get thread. I have faith in those more knowledgeable than I to guide me.

Requirements: Small. Rugged. Did I mention small? Maximum magnification. Good low light performance. Oh, and rugged. These things are going to take a beating. Think banged around, plus desert life. Sand, dirt.

Yeah, I know. Magnification vs low light performance. Kinda working against each other in a compact.

Budget? Let's go with two different price points. How about around $300 or less, and if that just isn't possible let's say $750 max. Like I said, these are going to take a beating, so I'd rather not ruin a really expensive pair.

I have had some experience with an IOR rifle scope and was impressed, any thoughts on their binos?
http://swfa.com/IOR-10x25-BGA-Binocular-P6721.aspx

Anyway, any help appreciated. Thanks!
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Klamath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 03:55

I'm tempted to ask whether or not you are really serious. The only choice you have is one of the top end compact binoculars. But why in he!! do you think it necessary to buy anything to abuse it like you indicate you are going to do? I understand that equipment is purchased to be used and often used hard. I have busted stuff from tractors and tillage equipment to cell phones, computers, and even optics. Having said that, I don't think even the best compact is large enough to be looked at to stand up to what you describe. Plus adding high magnification and everything else, I really have nothing come to mind that might suit your needs, and I can usually recommend something for almost any use, but not here. Sorry. I am tempted to suggest you go to the bargain rack and buy them out of $10.00 bubble wraps and just use one for a few days until it dies, reach into the stash and repeat until the stash is gone then go repeat the cycle. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I have no other ideas.

OK, thinking a little further, Steiner has a reputation for making some tough stuff. Whether or not their compacts are in the same league, I'd suggest you take a look at their Wildlife Pro series. I think they come in 8.5 and 10x26. Look at those, back the magnification requirements down to 8.5x maximum (you'll see more with less magnification here) and see if those have any appeal.



Edited by Klamath - February/25/2011 at 12:38
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muddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote muddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 07:05
I don't know much but what I do know is that I've never seen or used a compact binocular that I didn't want to throw in the trash.  My buddy has a very expensive pocket size Nikon compact that I personally wouldn't let my 2 year old use because it sucks so bad.

If I may ask, what are you going to be using them for?  You say rugged and able to take a beating in the dirt and desert, are you going over seas to Afghanistan or something?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bird Watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 12:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 12:33
A few comments:

-There isn't a single 10x25 binocular on the market that I would be willing to buy.  In any price range. This configuration has too many shortcomings.

-At this point the tradeoff is not just low light performance vs magnification.  It is performance in any lighting conditions vs magnification.  Unless something is seriously wrong with your eyes, you will see more detail through a 8x25, than 10x25 under 95% of lighting and environmental conditions.

-If you want a smallish binocular, look for lower magnifications.  You will see better.  My favourite is Vortex Viper 6x30.  You will be amazed how much you can see with it.  There are also several very nice 8x32 binoculars out there with the cheapest truly high quality 32/33mm one probably being Minox BD 8x33 BL.

-The smallest roof prism binocular I recommend for some situations is Vortex Viper 8x28.  Generally, since Viper is being replaced by Viper HD, there are very good deals right now on these.

-In lower price brackets, look for inverse porro designs.  While slightly less compact than small roofs, the performance is worth it.  The best one is Bushnell Elite 7x26.

-If you really want to spend the least amount of money possible, look at Leupold Yosemite 6x32 or Vortex Raptor 6.5x32

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mantiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 12:44
Compact binoculars from Nikon Trailblazer 10x50s they are but really work quiet nice. Happy Bunny here :)

Edited by koshkin - February/25/2011 at 13:15
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Klamath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 12:48
+1 to everything Koshkin said.  It is a mistake to expect too much magnification from too small a size and to add military spec toughness.
 
The military uses a 7x28 single hinge roof with individual focus.  Google Weems & Plath Apache 7x28 binocular.  This might work.  However, you will need to give up on the 10x or more magnification idea.  There is a reason the armed services uses a 7x in this configuration rather than 10x.


Edited by Klamath - February/25/2011 at 12:50
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Klamath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 12:56
Originally posted by Mantiz Mantiz wrote:

Compact binoculars from ....Nikon Trailblazer... 10x50s they are but really work quiet nice. Happy Bunny here :)
Well, welcome to OT.  However,  if these seem like a compact to you, you are way too much bigger than me for me to argue with Big Smile
 
But size aside, they'd be better for the OP too.


Edited by Klamath - February/25/2011 at 12:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 13:15
Originally posted by Mantiz Mantiz wrote:

Compact binoculars from Nikon Trailblazer10x50s they are but really work quiet nice. Happy Bunny here :)

I did not like the link there, so I took it out.

Generally, aside from general problems like crappy optical quality, 10x50 is not a compact.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neilbilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 13:56

Are the 8x models as good as the 6x?

 http://swfa.com/Leupold-8x30-Green-Ring-Yosemite-Binocular-P7519.aspx


If they are, they are a super deal right now. I have the 6x model and LOVE them. 


These were also suggested to me for hunting. I went with the Leupold because they were a little smaller and for what I was wanting to do, they were a better fit.


http://swfa.com/Zen-Ray-7x36-Zen-ED2-Binocular-P41886.aspx


Might help us a smidge if we knew what you were looking to do with them besides beat em up. Big Smile

If God didn't want me to play with it, he'd of made my arms shorter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 13:58
A 10X50 compact?

Impossible. 

Well, I guess March made an excellent 10x erector rifle scope, so anything's possible.

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hexcentric1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hexcentric1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 15:00
Originally posted by muddy muddy wrote:

...are you going over seas to Afghanistan or something?


Yep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hexcentric1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 15:10
Originally posted by Klamath Klamath wrote:

The military uses a 7x28 single hinge roof with individual focus.  Google Weems & Plath Apache 7x28 binocular.


This looks very interesting... are you familiar with the optical quality? Price point puts it roughly on par with some of the other binos mentioned in this thread so far...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 15:13
hexcentric1
 
Thank you for your service.  I have a nephew in the US Special forces who has three Iraq tours under his belt, and I realize, and appreciate the sacrifices young guys like you make.  So I wish you well and hope for a safe return from duty.
 
So that gets me back to the Weems & Plath.  My nephew likes them for a small, unobtrusive size, lightweight glass, easy to hand for quick identifications.  They use something else for serious recon work.  I have no idea of whether the Army version of this binocular is issued as general part of the field gear or not.  I guess maybe not or you would not have posed your question, or they do and you don't like the issue.
 
Having said that, I don't think I would not trust my life to ANY 10x25 binocular, regardless of who made it or what it cost.  This is my personal choice and I would use a small lightweight 32mm class glass like the Vortex Razor in 6x32 or 8x32.
 
I am not familiar with the 7x28.  I have seen it referenced in some other posts on other forums and threads.


Edited by Klamath - February/25/2011 at 15:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blackmore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 19:47
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


-The smallest roof prism binocular I recommend for some situations is Vortex Viper 8x28.  Generally, since Viper is being replaced by Viper HD, there are very good deals right now on these.
 
ILya
 
Here you go:
 
 
I also thank you for your service.
A professional is someone who can do his best work when he doesn't feel like it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucznik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2011 at 21:23
My uncle has a old Zeiss 10x25 binocular that he got 20+ years ago and he absolutely loves that little thing.  It slips into a shirt pocket totally unobtrusively.  He has used it as his primary bowhunting binocular for many years and has no interest in replacing it.  He would be very sad if he ever lost it.
 
Generally I have found 8x pocket binoculars to be more to my liking but, I could be very happy with one of the better 10x25 models if that was what was available.
 
I don't care for the reverse-Porro prism designs as they are not compact enough to warrant the small objective lens sizes.  So to the roof prism 28mm models.  They would be nice for some things, but when I go compact, I want truly compact.     Even my little Pentax 8x25 DCF MC II compact, which has given yeoman's service over the last few years, is often just a bit too big.  I'm thinking of getting a nice little 8x20 model, perhaps a little Zeiss like my uncle's.
 
 
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hexcentric1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2011 at 00:48
Thanks for all the feedback. Definitely going to look into the Vortex binoculars, I think I had overlooked those prior to asking here. Anyone who could compare them to the Weems & Plath mentioned is most welcome to comment!

Different units get issued different stuff based on whatever it is they're going to do. Binos are not part of our mtoe, but I can imagine more than a few situations where I'd like to have them.

Thanks for all the support!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpcollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2011 at 06:44
I didn't see whether you wanted roof or porro, but you did mention compact and rugged - with your price ranges I assume you want quality. If you don't wear glasses, you might try a pair of Leica 8x20 Trinovids (used if not abused is ok). If you wear glasses then I'd go with a Leice 8x20 Ultravision.
 
I've had both and the quality and clarity is unreal. I was able to pick up the Ultravisions used in mint condition for $375 shipped. May not be the best in low light but I have other binocs for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote etudiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2011 at 08:07
Hi,
The Steiner 8.5x26 Wildlife Pro was given a solid thumbs up here:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2598

It fits your budget, folds compactly and has decent optics. Also, Steiner is a reputable supplier.
Minox has just introduced a comparably priced rubber armored 7x28 IF glass that might also serve, but it may not yet be available here.
http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=70&L=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=380&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4585&cHash=46be4ce35d

In my experience, no small glass gives a comfortable view. If compactness is the key, the Zeiss 8x20 monocular is hard to beat, but it is really only good for quick looks, not prolonged observation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hexcentric1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2011 at 00:40
Originally posted by Blackmore Blackmore wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


-The smallest roof prism binocular I recommend for some situations is Vortex Viper 8x28.  Generally, since Viper is being replaced by Viper HD, there are very good deals right now on these.
 
ILya
 
Here you go:
 
 
I also thank you for your service.


Looks like a winner. I'll give it a shot, just ordered it from the samplelist. Thanks guys, I'll be sure to give you my impressions once I get to play with it a bit.
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