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SHTF AK vs. AR and why??? |
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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EDIT b/c my comment was taken the wrong way. Edited by SVT_Tactical - December/23/2010 at 09:10 |
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shooter07
Optics Jedi Knight Shooting Sprout Joined: June/12/2010 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 5120 |
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+100 BB and G.
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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
"Issac Newton invented gravity because some asshole hit him with an apple" -Chris Moltisanti |
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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Lets try to get off that track and back on topic... Wondering what makes it combat ineffective or not as GREAT as the AR... Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - December/23/2010 at 08:44 |
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No one
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shooter07
Optics Jedi Knight Shooting Sprout Joined: June/12/2010 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 5120 |
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I put my answer above, and Ilya also had a nice writeup. In this day in age, the AR has surpassed the AK in many areas as i outlined above. |
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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
"Issac Newton invented gravity because some asshole hit him with an apple" -Chris Moltisanti |
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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Ilya- as always is not just limited to an optics Lord...
What spare parts for the AK??? How about an extra complete rifle for $350 bones.
Where is DAN the MAN (besides hunting) on this one. Please KB I really am interested to hear you Chime in. Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - December/23/2010 at 08:58 |
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No one
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Bitterroot Bulls
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: May/07/2009 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 3416 |
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I will also take the AR in a SHTF scenario. The AK is an ultra-reliable design, and has the more powerful round. That is where its advantages end.
Both forms of ammo are readily available. The big issue is accuracy. Why is this important in a SHTF scenario? Because you want to be the most effective while using the LEAST amount of ammo. The AR is an accurate weapon at mid range, and effective in close combat. The AK is more suited to putting a lot of rounds down range, wherever they go. I'll take an AR. |
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-Matt
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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Ok I will answer the orginal question as plain jane as I can.
AK vs AR, My choice is AR. I am fimilar with the system and not as much with the AK.
Edited by SVT_Tactical - December/23/2010 at 11:28 |
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outlawskinnyd
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/28/2010 Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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like i said get both.
i love my ar i love my ak they both have short comings and both have their strengths. shtf to me is not war, its disaster. where i live if a hurricane hit and people were lewding and there were the conditions that followed there id grab my ak 74....bullets falling flat ballistics blah blah blah....like i said, shoot game ethically with a 556 and shoot it with a 545....then look at the insides. but this is just my opinion. and i hold everyone elses opinion with respect as well. |
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silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
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We have everybody trying to make the AR into an AK with a piston... Get an AK or get a Sig 556 and skip the AR.
We just had a SHTF dry run with the recent ammo shortage. I went with the AK. I could afford lots of ammo and the gun at the same time. The AK is more concealable. I am not lookin' at great groups, but I have the extra punch for a concrete blocks or a lot of other forms of cover. I am looking to dump a lot of rounds through both sides of a car at close range. I think you a better off countering cover than worrying about groups because you fire fight is less than 300 meters. The mean is more like 75 yards.
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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
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outlawskinnyd
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/28/2010 Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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thank you! |
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outlawskinnyd
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/28/2010 Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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when are we gonna stop looking at charts and start looking at real world performance?
is the 5.56 faster than a 5.45? if the ar has a 20" barrel yes is the 5.56 heavier? yes does the 5.56 hit as hard? NO! does the 5.56 penetrate as well as a 5.45 considering the bullet is the same? NO! but all the statistics say the 5.56 should be more powerful! how can that be?!?!?! because theres more to terminal ballistics than terminal ballistics there have been millions of accounts on how reliable an ak is. the military has been looking at new rifles for some time. they are always trying to get new more powerful ammo...which is good. progress to keep us safe is a good thing...and i will gladly pay tax dollars towards military research (just not obama care and whatever other special of the day is) but they are trying to get a rifle as reliable as an ak and as hard hitting....think about it! you know what the hk 416 and the hk417 is? its an ar-47! since nam what have they done to an ar? given it a foward assist and chroming the barrel? making a tighter twist rate? yeah that makes it more accurate and more likely to just pass through whatever it hits (m855). stoner's rifle was meant to have a 20" barrel, a rifle gas system, a 1 in 12 twist rate for optimal tumbling and yaw. what do we have today? a 14.5" barrel in a carbine gas system with a 1 in 7 twist rate to fire more powerful "hotter" loads of the 5.56. all of these changes were made to keep up with one weapon....the ak 47. anyone who says the ak is not suitabe for close quarters combat is wrong. ever hear the famous line, that in all its variations focuses on the fact that "america's armed forces were not trained for guierlla warefare". (special ops dont apply to that quote). well i hate to break the news to some of you, but our opposition all had ak-47s. they did close quater combat just fine. Edited by outlawskinnyd - December/23/2010 at 11:06 |
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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I think that the M4 variants of the AR are also very concealable. AK/AR, I don't care either way as long as I had something.
Given a choice I would take an HK 91/93 any day over an AR or AK. I would paddle a boat and drive tent stakes with the HK and they are accurate. They are also absolutely reliable. The recoil operated system is very simple and the guns tear down quickly for field repair and cleaning.
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Doug
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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I love the JLD OR PTR builds especially the .243win... Very simple very reliable...Very easy trigger adjustments...
Very deadly...
This is all great info lots to consider vs just the pinpoint 300-500yrd accuracy...
What mods do you suggest for the AR SHTF DEDICATED weapon?
Is there anything you would do to the AK BESIDES THE SIGHTing system.
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No one
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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Given my preference I would take a .308 cal rifle likely an M1a but I feel a strong need to be familiar with both the AK and AR platforms. You likely will not have a lot of choice and may only have what you have with you if there was some true un-natural disaster like a dirty bomb. With that in mind it makes a lot of sense to me to have a "survival" type rifle like a 22 or 22 mag or 17hmr something that will kill dinner. Last go round - Y2k my choice was to have a ruger 10-22 readily available. There is no perfect choice does it all rifle but if I were to choose between only the AK and the AR I would have to go with the AR because you can get a .22 cal conversion kit for that and use it -- but the same weight and space would also allow for a nice 22 pistol that could be carried with an AK so it's rather a moot point. I like the larger heavier slug of the AK better than the typical FMJ bullet of the AR but neither is a match for a 77gr SMK out of the AR they are quite accurate. An AR with 77gr SMK ammo is still no match for a .308 or 300 WM at distance. Up close the AR and AK do not have the intimidation ability that a simple Pump 12 ga riot gun has and the partially trained or un trained person is probably better off defending themself at close range with the riot gun where a trained professional is better off with the precision of the AR or AK. To sum it up I say buy a 22 and a skinning knife you will need to kill more bunnies than zombies.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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outlawskinnyd
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/28/2010 Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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none. its bad enough people like rainier arms take fashion photo shoots of the ar-15. they have some guy in a field with air planes flying over him with his camo on and an ar with every single accessory you can imagine...settle down johnny rambo i totally agree. throw up a nice trijicon reflex or aimpoint on an ak and your done.... and imo forget about arsenal. go get a romanian ak. foreign ak's were built to go into battle. but i love my ar and love its functionability as hunting rifle.
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Easy dogging on 338 Lapua. He served and was part of a very amazing unit. They did some great things over there.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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338LAPUASLAP
Optics Master Scope Swapper Joined: October/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2596 |
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I am fine... This is kinda what I asked for I am interested by this topic as most expect to hear me be a eurocentric AR everytime every situatuation for 6 days a week and 2wice on SUN but particularly on this topic I have avery very skewed look at SHTF and what Is going to be on my back and what is going to be under my shoulder and what is going to be by my thigh...I can respect all opinions and hope to hear from everyone on this as we all as owners think of this wether we are even just hunters or just plinkers or just paper punchers retired or inactive Americain or even the worst non-americain (j\k)...I figured the people who know a lot about a lot of things but at least have the inqusitiveness to ask about glass and quality cant be all that bad(jk) I do respect all of the opinions on here and love the open forum discussions we can CELEBRATE and define our differences back up or support our positions without completely bashing or blasting someone is deserved as we all have good input or unique experiences that should be shared... Again my intentions are to have you tell me what you think and why so i can print this and give it to a few people at our local raanges when they ask so i dont have to take My very limited shooting time talking and they can have more than a onesided converstaions. Again keep it up great pm's and good discussion.
Now back to it... Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - December/23/2010 at 12:34 |
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No one
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
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From pictures like that you can tell who the new guy is...
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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
WWW.formitch.com |
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