OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Line test with Swarovski, Bushnell, NightForce
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

Line test with Swarovski, Bushnell, NightForce

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
Phoenix356 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: October/19/2010
Location: Southwest
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phoenix356 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 09:39
After reading you post I decided to spend some time behind my Swaro Z5 5x25 figuring out what you issue might be.
 
I believe you are having an issue of not refocusing the Swarovski when you change the power settings. 
 
 By this I mean not the ocular focus of the reticule , but as in the parallax focus. 
 
When focusing the parallax you should pay no mind to the yardage settings on the parallax wheel. instead look to focus the object you are viewing.
 
When doing this I was observing bees at 25x with great detail at 150 yards on a tree this morning.
 
BTW, when comparing rifle scopes and switching you eyes between them, it is best to give you eyes a few seconds to adjust before looking through the next one and then refocus the scope.
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 09:51
Additionally, you need to verify the magnification of each scope.  Most manufacturers set the top min and max power, then put the rest on in a semi- "at will" manner.  So, on that 5-20, I doubt the 10X is a true 10X, this needs to be tested and verified.

There are a few additional points that could be made, but i don't see that it would help.

Carry on, Rich.
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar
Blind as a bat

Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Coyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 16:32
Originally posted by Phoenix356 Phoenix356 wrote:

After reading you post I decided to spend some time behind my Swaro Z5 5x25 figuring out what you issue might be.
 
I believe you are having an issue of not refocusing the Swarovski when you change the power settings. 
 
 By this I mean not the ocular focus of the reticule , but as in the parallax focus. 
 
When focusing the parallax you should pay no mind to the yardage settings on the parallax wheel. instead look to focus the object you are viewing.
 
When doing this I was observing bees at 25x with great detail at 150 yards on a tree this morning.
 
BTW, when comparing rifle scopes and switching you eyes between them, it is best to give you eyes a few seconds to adjust before looking through the next one and then refocus the scope.
 
Thanks for trying to help.  I did what you are suggesting throughout the  test.  I didn't look at teh numbers, I only looked through the scopes.  After I had each as clear as it would go, I then recorded the indicated yardage.
Back to Top
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar
Blind as a bat

Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Coyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 16:36
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Additionally, you need to verify the magnification of each scope.  Most manufacturers set the top min and max power, then put the rest on in a semi- "at will" manner.  So, on that 5-20, I doubt the 10X is a true 10X, this needs to be tested and verified.

There are a few additional points that could be made, but i don't see that it would help.

Carry on, Rich.
 
Folks who walk into a store have no way of verifying anything except what looks good to them.  The manufactorers generally have only one shot at impressing the customer.  They set the magnification to what it is labeled and calll it good.  When I pay $1659 for a Swarovski I expect it to be labeled correctly.
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 17:01
So, if I am understanding you right, marketing must be trusted, to the exclusion of all common sense?


Nobody to "Epic" in 70 posts, that is a new record, gotta be!

Is there a chance many of your optics were purchased from someone's trunk, perhaps not in the original boxes, and maybe with "Swarovski" misspelled?

At this point, I must recuse myself on the grounds that I know too much about optics to be an asset in this conversation.  (Which is startling, since i really don't know much at all.)

Rich, if you believe it, it must be true. There is no difference between "your" truth, and "the" truth, carry on, and may you live 1,000 years and evaluate optics till the bitter end.

Over and out.

Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 17:49
Whacko
Back to Top
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar
Blind as a bat

Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Coyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2010 at 21:54
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

So, if I am understanding you right, marketing must be trusted, to the exclusion of all common sense?


Nobody to "Epic" in 70 posts, that is a new record, gotta be!

Is there a chance many of your optics were purchased from someone's trunk, perhaps not in the original boxes, and maybe with "Swarovski" misspelled?

At this point, I must recuse myself on the grounds that I know too much about optics to be an asset in this conversation.  (Which is startling, since i really don't know much at all.)

Rich, if you believe it, it must be true. There is no difference between "your" truth, and "the" truth, carry on, and may you live 1,000 years and evaluate optics till the bitter end.

Over and out.

I don't understand what you are refering to in your first sentence.  Maybe you could elaborate.
 
The Z5 I purchased was droped shipped by Swarovski to my home.  I never bought anything out of someone's trunk.  The vast majority of my optics purchases are done "on line" from nationally known companies.  The NightForce I purchased from a gunshop cause I saw it and liked it.  Nice to have a liitle in the bank for such emegencies.
 
I have a simple formula for such purchases.  "Wanting is justification enough."  Also I go for, "Ain't nothin' too good for the saints."
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2010 at 15:13
Originally posted by Rich Coyle Rich Coyle wrote:

 
 The manufactorers generally have only one shot at impressing the customer.  They set the magnification to what it is labeled and calll it good.  When I pay $1659 for a Swarovski I expect it to be labeled correctly.


Television manufacturers count on you walking into a store, no real knowledge, no critical thinking, and eyeballing what looks best. And so does everyone else.

Every manufacturer gives specs, some hit them, many do not; only a foolish buyer trusts them.

Everyone is selling something, and most will not be entirely honest with you.

Expect away.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - November/18/2010 at 15:14
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar
Blind as a bat

Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Coyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2010 at 15:14
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Originally posted by Rich Coyle Rich Coyle wrote:

 
 The manufactorers generally have only one shot at impressing the customer.  They set the magnification to what it is labeled and calll it good.  When I pay $1659 for a Swarovski I expect it to be labeled correctly.


Television manufacturers count on you walking into a store, no real knowledge, no critical thinking, and eyeballing what looks best. And so does everyone else.

Every manufacturer gives specs, some hit them, many do not; only a foolish buyer trusts them.

Everyone is selling something, and most will not be entirely honest with you.

Expect away.
 
Let me see if I understand you correctly.  I should expect Swarovski to mislable the settings on their scopes?
Back to Top
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2010 at 15:52
  You should learn to expect the unexpected.  Had an aunt who bought a new washing machine. Had it delivered. They plugged it in. Went to start it and WAHLA. No motor.  Expect the unexpected. Of course all was made good.
 
"I ain't got time to bleed!"
Back to Top
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
God of no Chihuahua

Joined: December/16/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 24225
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2010 at 17:20
 
 
 
Be sure to visit,

THE ED SHOW

Ju Cucarachas!!!
Back to Top
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar
Blind as a bat

Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Coyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2010 at 17:50
Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

  You should learn to expect the unexpected.  Had an aunt who bought a new washing machine. Had it delivered. They plugged it in. Went to start it and WAHLA. No motor.  Expect the unexpected. Of course all was made good.  
 
I am expecting Swarovski to make the Z5 good in the next run.  A light high magnification scope is not escential, but close to it.
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2010 at 20:52
Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

 
 
 

I KNOW that chick... Munchen 1973...  I think that's my beer...
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2010 at 21:17
 Look close. I think it's really Robin Williams.   Bucky
"I ain't got time to bleed!"
Back to Top
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
God of no Chihuahua

Joined: December/16/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 24225
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2010 at 21:46
She's hot, Kickboxer!!!       Bandito    
 
 
 
Be sure to visit,

THE ED SHOW

Ju Cucarachas!!!
Back to Top
sgsxr View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: June/22/2010
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgsxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2010 at 08:32
I don't suppose anyone with perfect vision has taken the time to do a similar test as Richard?
Comparing the Bushnell to the Swaro to the NF?
 
I would be interested to see how accurate/inaccurate his numbers are.
 
 
Back to Top
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar
Blind as a bat

Joined: October/22/2010
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Coyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2010 at 09:27
Originally posted by sgsxr sgsxr wrote:

I don't suppose anyone with perfect vision has taken the time to do a similar test as Richard?
Comparing the Bushnell to the Swaro to the NF?
 
I would be interested to see how accurate/inaccurate his numbers are.
 
They would rather badger someone who has had two gunsmith's compare the three you mentioned.  Neither of these gunsmiths need corective glass.  The first fellow is about forty-five years old the second is about thirty-three.
 
I tried to influence them by suggesting, "Take a look at the Bushnell first.  That way you can see how much better the Swarovski is."  The first gunsmith compared them under totally overcase skys at about 11AM.   He told me he could not see any difference.  The other 'smith went right for the Swarovski.  After several minutes he considered the Bushnell.  I suggested to him, "The Swarovski is better isn't it?"  After a few seconds and with no enthusiasm what so ever he slowly said, "Yes."  Then I brought out the NightForce.  It starts a 12X.  After a few minutes he turned the others up and compared them again.
 
About that time the sun came out from behind the clouds.  He switched back to the Bushnell and Swarovski.  As the clouds moved across the sky, he switched back and forth between the Swaro and Bush.  He said, "When the Sun is out the Busnell is better.  When the sun goes behind the clouds, the Swarovski is better."
 
He went back to the NightForce.  After a few more minutes he declaired of the NightForce, "This is the finest scope I have ever handled." 
 
My son-in-law, who goes out at night without a flashlight at times without a flashlight agrees with the young gunsmith after he looked through the other two scopes.
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2010 at 09:42
Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

She's hot, Kickboxer!!!       Bandito    
 
 
 

After all that beer she was...
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2010 at 10:03
Originally posted by sgsxr sgsxr wrote:

I don't suppose anyone with perfect vision has taken the time to do a similar test as Richard?
Comparing the Bushnell to the Swaro to the NF?
 
I would be interested to see how accurate/inaccurate his numbers are.
 
 
 
I haven't compared the exact same models, but I own 2 NF scopes (3.5-15X50 and 8-32X56) and 4 Swarovski scopes (3-9X36 AV, 3-10X42 AV, 6-24X50 PH, and 1.7-10X42 Z6i).  I have used both NF scopes and the Swaro 6-24X50 extensively for long range varminting, shooting PD's at ranges up to 1000 yards in all light conditions and in heavy mirage.  I like the NF reticles and knobs better than Swaro.  The NF scopes are certainly more robustly built.  Optically, the Swaro spanks NF, not to mention NF has quite pronounced tunnel vision.  The Swaro has better resolution, higher contrast, and a tad better light transmission.  Still, NF scopes are very good.  They are built for entirely different purposes, though.  NF is a better choice for a tactical or long range rifle, where you will be dialing in firing solutions.  Swaro doesn't have knobs suitable for this purpose, nor was any of their scopes designed for tactical, long range competition, LE, military use as NF is.  They are hunting scopes.  So, if you want to do a lot of knob turning and long range shooting and value that over pure optical performance, get the NF.  If you value optics first and foremost and want a pure hunting scope, get the Swaro.
 
The Bushnell 6500 series scopes are equivalent to NF optically (the optics for both are supplied by the same manufacturer -- Light Optical Works in Japan), and are a great choice for a pure hunting scope.  They don't quite stack up to Swaro optically, but they offer great performance for the $ spent.  I haven't used any of the 6500's but I've used the 4200 scopes extensively.  There are no optical differences between the 4200 series and 6500 series; the 6500 series just offers greater zoom range.
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
sgsxr View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: June/22/2010
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgsxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2010 at 10:06
Thank you for the information.  Much appreciated.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.543 seconds.