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Best 8x42 binoc under $500

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Klamath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2010 at 17:01
Originally posted by Bird Watcher Bird Watcher wrote:

Steve,
 
When are you going to give us some feedback on the 9x36?
 
 
Stan
 
The one I got had some issues with a  prism housing and I had to send it back.  Charles wanted to use it to see if it was an isolated incident (evidently it was) or not, I told him to take all the time he needed to be sure everything was OK.  My bad one seems to have been pure bad luck.  So I won't see it until next week.  I told him to fill other orders first as I was in no particular hurry.
 
I will post a new thread when I get some info.


Edited by Klamath - December/02/2010 at 17:03
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bird Watcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/02/2010 at 19:09
Thanks.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spf2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2010 at 18:55
Originally posted by Smileydawg1 Smileydawg1 wrote:

I have to decide between Zens or Vipers
 
Zens for me too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meanwhile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/09/2010 at 13:47
I'd bet on these Porro's to be at least 99% as good as anything else under $500. < ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">They're officially 8x45, but probably closer really to 8x42. This guy really knows what he is talking about and he rates them:


< ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">The optical performance of this binocular is quite remarkable. Already on the first sight, the image appears very bright and with high contrast. I was informed that this model comes with a novel, further improved coating technology, and the tests seem to support that claim. During daytime, the image brightness is higher than that of my Docter 8x42 B/CF (which is the version made before 2007) and comparable to the Nikon 8x30 EII. The image is also very neutral without any color tint. In the night, ghost images of street lanterns are well suppressed, indicating that not only the lenses but also the prisms are treated with a high performance coating. Under the night sky, the star images remain point-like over about 80-85% of the field of view (radial from the center) - an excellent result! This binocular is therefore suitable for astronomy. 

- And this guy is a physicist, so he takes his binocular reviewing pretty seriously. 

The 10x42 just won a UK astronomy magazine binocular shootout against binoculars costing several times more - that was under the "Elinor" brand, where they sell for £160 (http://www.opticalhardware.co.uk/news.htm). However you can also get them branded as Hilkinson Falmouth's for £80 here: 

http://www.claritas-online.co.uk/products/product_pages/binoculars/falmouth.html

They take PayPal, so they should be willing to ship to the States.


Downsides: 

- A little ugly because of the grey bridge and bulging name badge

- Slightly heavy focusing

- Mine came with a really nasty soft case.

- Most people think roofs are somehow "cool" 


Upsides: 

- Image quality to blow away any roofs I've used that don't have "Leica" on them. As Dr Meyerlitz says, the coating technology used seems to be exceptional - these are very bright, even allowing for the huge size of the eyepiece exit glass.

- Nitrogen filled and sealed.

- For me, exceptional well balanced and shake free in my hand. But that's probably very personal.

- For what you get, very cheap indeed. Even the Elinor branded glasses are a bargain and the Hilkinson ones are quite insane value. 
< ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">

- Good eye relief, excellent screw-in rubber eyecups



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NDhunter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NDhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/09/2010 at 18:25
meanwhile:
 
Some interesting ones here.  Are you in the US or elsewhere?  For many watching here, warranty
and some history are important. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meanwhile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2010 at 09:14
ND - I'm in the UK. Hilkinsons have been in business for decades, so I'd trust their warranty. But for a pair of Porros that perform like roofs costing 5x their price I'd probably gamble on warranty anyway - after all, you do the same thing when you buy used.

But I suspect that you can find these glasses under yet another name in the US. The ugly grey bridge and focusser combined with the wide but squat eyepieces and distinctive spec makes them easy to recognize. Looking at ebay I found what look like identical glasses being sold as Brunton Echoes and RAMBs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brunton-Echo-8x45-Porro-Prism-Binocular-NEW-black-/160515528096?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255f7895a0

http://cgi.ebay.com/Top-Clear-RAMB-8X45-Bak4-Prism-WaterProof-Binoculars-/220698602600?pt=AU_Cameras_Telescopes_Binoculars&hash=item3362a96c68

Of course there's always a chance that these re-sellers won't exercise good quality control or that they might have skimped on paying for the coatings that make Dr H's and my glasses work so well. But if you see ugly glasses like this at your local store, or available from a net seller with a strong returns policy, then it's worth taking a look:



It probably isn't surprising that cheap old-school glasses can perform so well - Porro's are MUCH easier to get right than roofs. Even if roofs are phase coated then the effectiveness of that coating is going to depend on alignments that are extremely exact even by optical instrument standards, and these must be kept through out the life of the instrument to maintain quality. So Porros are a lot cheaper to make to a high standard and in some ways tougher, despite the typically more exposed focus. If you can put up with the slow focus then genuine military Porros with individual eyepiece focussing can have the best image quality of all combined with the ultimate in toughness - the Fujinon's the US military use are supposed to be superb.  (I semi-suspect that the ugly grey focusser of the Loavas is a sign of a design that re-uses parts meant for an individual focusser military glass.)

Astronomers tend to prefer Porros too - the issues with roofs really show up with high contrast point sources like stars, especially at the edge of the field.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2010 at 09:40

I have used the Zen's in 10x43 and they are indeed a great glass for the money. I would expect the same from the 8x43.

I have also used the Vortex Razors in 8x42. They are likewise a fine glass for the money. The latest price on the 8.5x50 is outstanding. They are considerably larger and outside the stated parameters, though.

 

Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brodeur272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2010 at 10:36
I really like my Pentax 8x43 SPs.  They are as good as my Swarovski 8x30s. 
 
My 0.02...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meanwhile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2010 at 18:38
Ok - I did some more research: if you want those cheap, ugly but amazingly good Porros in the USA then they are sold in a variety of magnifications and apertures as Brunton Echoes:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=186091

According to that thread they are probably a Minolta design, maybe with some improvements. You seem to be able to find that 7x45 at $100 or less in the US - and this is a bino that has sold at almost £200 in the UK as an amazingly good deal after that astronomy magazine review. The binos will look uncool with those grey bridges, the case will be awful, and they may be in a blister pack. But the build quality and image quality are just a very slight notch below the very, very best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NDhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2010 at 18:50
Meanwhile:
It seems you may have your opinion on binoculars, but anything blister pack, Brunton, Excellent is not a slight notch below the very best, let alone compare with a Nikon Action or anything with a warranty.
 
You should know that, so don't try to push it. 
 
Jerry
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meanwhile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2010 at 09:17
...I would suggest that smart people judge binoculars by ***looking through them***, not at the packaging they are in. Or, failing that, by talking to competent people who have looked through them like Meyerlitz or the astronomy magazine reviewers.

Why does it matter than Brunton sell these in a blister pack in a US and another company sells them in a box, at 3x the price in the UK? Do you really think that being shipped in a box magically improves the quality of the optics?

Porros of high quality are inherently much easier to make than high quality roofs - you need less precise alignment,  don't need phases coatings or to silver prisms, and your prisms are inherently brighter and have better contrast. There's nothing at all surprising about a Chinese factory being able to buy a high end Japanese Porro design and make it so cheaply. Nor in a US company putting these in blister packs - fancy packaging would be wasted without a brand name and binoculars that are cool to look at, rather than through. And these things look uncool even for Porros.

Go and take a look at the Meyerlitz review: the man knows a hundred times more optics than you do (hey - he is a physicist - he actually understands what Brewster's angle polarization is) and tests his binos scientifically; he was impressed.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2010 at 14:18

For anyone interested it is Holger Merlitz, not Mayerlitz.  Might help with a Google search if so inclined. Smile  Yes, I have read that review.  Holger's site is one of my bookmarks.

Now I will say here I have seen the 8x45 Echo.  I suppose it could be taken as the same basic design as has been pictured.  It was in a Sportsman's Warehouse in Kennewick WA, and if memory serves I think it was before Holger's review so maybe different glass.  I will agree the optics are quite surprising at the price level.  To be honest I had forgotten all about these until this thread.  I also have nothing against Brunton either.  I could easily live with the 7.5x43 Epoch.  Or an 8x45 Eterna for that matter.
 
Now nobody has been any more vocal than me about not needing to spend high dollars on binoculars to get good optics.  Not to say the alpha brands are not better glass, but as far as I can see they are way overpriced.  Again, yes they are better.  So IF you want/need to spend that extra for whatever feeling you get that's fine.  However, while I do not necessarily equate the terms cheap and inexpensive, there has to be some point where the inexpensive does degrade into the cheap.  This is where I personally place the Brunton.  Very nice optics, but to me they sort of scream "borderline cheap"  not "good value for the money".  They would be a good binocular for use around the house and ocassional short car trips etc.  They don't strike me as being much different than the Bushnell Natureview or the Nikon Action. 
 
While I DO NOT DISAGREE that porro is easier to get right than roof, the very nature of the porro design is inherently less robust than the roof.  After you get below a certain input level in the manufacture the porro's inherent weaknesses will result in knocked around and beat up binoculars.
 
So while agreeing that the optics are good enough I would stop short of recommending these as a hunting glass.  The budget restraint would have to be less than $100 rather than $500 for these to be an option.  Again, just my two cents worth. 


Edited by Klamath - December/15/2010 at 14:22
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NDhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2010 at 19:37
Originally posted by meanwhile meanwhile wrote:

...I would suggest that smart people judge binoculars by ***looking through them***, not at the packaging they are in. Or, failing that, by talking to competent people who have looked through them like Meyerlitz or the astronomy magazine reviewers.

Why does it matter than Brunton sell these in a blister pack in a US and another company sells them in a box, at 3x the price in the UK? Do you really think that being shipped in a box magically improves the quality of the optics?

Porros of high quality are inherently much easier to make than high quality roofs - you need less precise alignment,  don't need phases coatings or to silver prisms, and your prisms are inherently brighter and have better contrast. There's nothing at all surprising about a Chinese factory being able to buy a high end Japanese Porro design and make it so cheaply. Nor in a US company putting these in blister packs - fancy packaging would be wasted without a brand name and binoculars that are cool to look at, rather than through. And these things look uncool even for Porros.

Go and take a look at the Meyerlitz review: the man knows a hundred times more optics than you do (hey - he is a physicist - he actually understands what Brewster's angle polarization is) and tests his binos scientifically; he was impressed.
 
Meanwhile:
I am well acquainted with fine porros as I have quite a bit of experience, and do agree with you on how good porros perform, have you tried any of the fine Nikon's, E, EII, SE ?  Brunton, does not have anything to compare.   Steve, here is an excellent resource, and I agree with his findings.  I am also acquainted with the Holger Merlitz reviews, and he does really know his stuff.   
 
I guess it seems you have really been pushing the Brunton, and the sponsor of this forum does not sell
Brunton, I just admit I find them to be somewhat of a lesser quality brand, so for those watching, I did
not want you to push them too far.
 
Jerry


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