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EPA looking at banning traditional ammo |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Yep, that's right! Politicians know that they can't express their real agendas outright because they wouldn't get votes. So, they advocate "sensible" new regulations that move the bar an inch at a time toward tyranny, and the result is we lose our liberties on the installment plan. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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"The rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" Therefore any means of imposition that would preclude, via excessive taxation, legislation, bench decree/precedent, is in fact a Constitutional issue, and as such should be stricken down immediately. This is where the ideology of a "living" Constitution can readily show the danger that it represents to the freedom of this Country. It is this ideology that one will use to argue that in this day and time the original content is secondary to the needs/interest of the present.
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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other
An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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mike650
Optics God Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14569 |
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Same here, (dove, quail, etc. - OK) |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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mpk
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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I don't want to get into a political argument. I'm a hunter, sport shooter, and biochemist. I have stopped using lead because it is inarguably toxic- that is not debatable. I have 2 kids and I don't want them to eat venison unless it was harvested with copper bullets. Human blood lead studies have recently been finished showing that eating lead-shot venison increases Pb levels. You can't necessarily avoid avoid fragments by removing the wound channel. Again, not political, just scientific. Look at the data and make up your own mind but don't dismiss it as left-wing conspiracy. You can see data including x-rays of game taken with jacketed lead bullets and decide for yourself.
http://www.ndhealth.gov/lead/venison/ http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/lead/index.html |
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mpk
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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This item from http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/fish_wildlife/lead/bulletstudy/resources/huntertips.pdf struck me as a major reason for lead fragmentation. Properly placed shots tend to exit the animal, e.g. rib cage right behind the foreleg. And they are the most immediately lethal. I haven't recovered a bullet in a deer for years and will pass up a shot unless I can put it in the lungs or heart. Now that's mitigation.
5. SHOT PLACEMENT CAN MINIMIZE YOUR EXPOSURE TO LEAD The study showed that a shot into the hind-quarters, where heavy bones are located, will result in high and widespread fragmentation in the meatiest part of the animal. Hunters need to choose their shots wisely and maintain their marksmanship skills. (Gotta wonder what kind of "hunter" ruins the hindquarters of a game animal). Edited by jonoMT - September/16/2010 at 09:15 |
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Reaction time is a factor...
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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I believe that was shot down a week or so back.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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There are studies that indicate the confiscation of guns deters crimes. That man causes global warming. That the rich when not taxed properly harms the economy. I have hunted most all of my life. I have eaten harvested game all of my life. No lead in my system above that of any other human being in my age group.
What comes next? Think about this too, and think long and hard. Reloading supplies expose you to carcinogens. Yet just how many long time reloaders are suffering from cancer?
Lead can be found in vegetables, water, earth. It is ingested regardless of eating gun harvested meat. Why is this? Because lead is a common element. Take ammunition out of the equation, and lead is still a common element.
Like it or not this is political, and when you engage in this debate you are going to have to recognize this as fact.
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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other
An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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One further thing.... I do not trust any government sponsored study. Remember government and the politicians that run it have an agenda. That agenda isn't in your, or our best interest.
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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other
An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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tman1965
Optics Master Joined: July/20/2010 Location: South Georgia Status: Offline Points: 1456 |
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+1 Cyborg! |
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Sometimes my tongue outruns my brain and I say something I haven't thought of yet!
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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Everyone now.... Repeat after me.... I am no one's fool. I refuse to play the fool.
Repeat this process until you believe it.
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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other
An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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stickbow46
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/07/2009 Location: Benton, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4678 |
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+2 cyborg.
The present government won't even give you or me a kiss behind the ear after sticking it to us & with out grease I might add!
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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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the EPA |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Ed Connelly
Optics Retard God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24225 |
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Albany County and Teton County went Blue for Obama!!! IN WYOMING!!!
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i could see teton doing that, nothing but a bunch of bunny huggin granola heads live up there now. albany though??? must be all the idiots at the university of wyoming. |
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i wouldnt listen to a word the mn dnr has to say, they think we have shortage of deer and that mountain lions dont exist in minnesota. |
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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mpk
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Does smoking increases the risk of cancer? Because that was the conclusion of studies sponsored by the government.
Like they say everyone's entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts. Anyway there's some pretty good copper bullets these days (in my opinion).
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mpk
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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Does abstanence prevent pregnancy 100% of the time? NO Look at the Virgin Mary!
Either way. There is no evidence that game shot by lead bullets causes anyone to get any more lead in there system than game shot with copper bullets. At least not a credible one.
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hebertjb
Optics GrassHopper Joined: June/27/2010 Location: Chester VA Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Assuming alternative bullets were as good as lead both in application and from a cost persepective, one cannot lose sight of the fact that this is an anti-gun tactic at heart. Are you, sir, willing to let another personal liberty be trampled upon by a governemnt already out of control - I just don't get people.......
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mpk
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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"Assuming alternative bullets were as good as lead both in application and from a cost persepective, one cannot lose sight of the fact that this is an anti-gun tactic at heart. Are you, sir, willing to let another personal liberty be trampled upon by a governemnt already out of control - I just don't get people..."
I am as angry if not more angry than you about a lot of the idiotic things the government has done and is doing. I just don't buy the premise that studying lead poisoning and finding alternatives is an anti-gun tactic. I agree that some anti-gun advocates want to do anything they can to regulate guns, and are happy with any new regulation, but that doesn't mean that all regulation is necessarily a bad idea.
It is paranoid to claim that all government is bad and all regulation is bad. If you believe that then you are assuming that human nature is totally benign and there would never be any reason to have safety regulations. Salmonela in eggs, poisonous heavy metals in children's toys from China, etc. We usually end up paying a lot more for not properly regulating corporations in the first place. Case in point how much taxpayer money have we lost down the rathole of Wall Street on corrupt bankers that went crazy with greed when finacial regulations were repealed. I don't mind paying taxes for roads, firemen etc., but not that...oh well politics is not where I wanted to go with this. I like copper bullets, I'll leave it at that. |
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mpk
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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Freedom has costs and it has risks. If you allow a governemnt to begin the elimination of the costs and risks, then freedom also is lost. Government is needed, but only does it serve freedom when it is limited and kept within those limits. We have lost only the tax payer money that was given by the government to Wall Street. The rest is theirs to lose. Government should be out of private enterprise all together.
Now to hear you blame the bankers is more of the "evil rich" mentality that allows politicians to continue their assault unchecked on all of us. They are far more to blame than the bankers for what happened, and for what? To buy votes, that's what. You take into account the trampling of freedoms, the lust for absolute power, and the blame game they employ at will with the help of the Media. Their agenda is quite clear to me, and to many others as well.
Now have you ever heard of copper poisoning? There is such a thing you know. That will be next. Then there's the carcinogen factor related to reloading too. Go ahead, and open that door if you are so inclined to have the vast wisdom beyond the rest of us. That you and the government know what's best for the rest of us. We need to be saved from ourselves, we are too ignorant to assume the risks. One day we will be without the means to secure and defend our freedoms, and it will be due to this incrementalist societal engineering crap. All of it will be from the fostering of studies designed for and aimed at separating us from our rights. For the greater good of course.
You like copper bullets? Fine, shoot them all you wish too. But atleast have the decency to open your eyes rather than blindly following, and waking too late for any of us to do damned thing about maintaining freedom.
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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other
An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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