OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition > Archery
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - BroadHead Weight Question
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

BroadHead Weight Question

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: BroadHead Weight Question
    Posted: August/09/2010 at 13:41
I know you're suppose to tune your bow to your broadheads that you intend to use for hunting.  I have been shooting Muzzy 100gr and just came across several boxes of older Razorback heads.  They weigh a bit more at 143 grs each according to the box.  What kinda performance decrease/decrease, if any, will I see out to 50yds.  I don't know if they would be better for transfering more energy with the increased weight or not.  Right now with the muzzy's i am getting around 270fps if that matters.
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
Back to Top
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 14:12
 Good chance you'd have to go to a heavier shaft for proper flight as those heavier broadheads will put your FOC (point of balance which should be around 11 to 13% forward of center )way off the mark.
"I ain't got time to bleed!"
Back to Top
cyborg View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Gaseous Clay

Joined: August/24/2007
Location: North Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 14:21
They will fly differently and the distance will be decreased. 43 grs is a lot in archery terms. Yes the spline of the arrow will also be affected more, which can translate into a different poi. Especially if you don't fletch your own shafts, and apply the spline identically on each one.
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg
Back to Top
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 14:39
Think it would hurt to take them and test them on my existing arrows to see how they fly?  I dont' want to do any damage to my bow.
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
Back to Top
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 13682
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 15:00
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Think it would hurt to take them and test them on my existing arrows to see how they fly?  I dont' want to do any damage to my bow.
 
yes, if the arrow is not spined right it can shatter. then you will need to go and have the ER dig it out of your arm and face. I would make sure you have the right aroows first.
 
P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2
Back to Top
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 15:06
10-4 I will look at them when i get home and let you know what I have.  Expect a call later.
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
Back to Top
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 13682
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 15:08
10-4
P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2
Back to Top
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 14964
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 22:29
I have been really happy with the 125 gr Thunderheads. One nice thing is you can get replacement blades which maked a big difference to me with the boys shooting them.  I dont think I would go heavier than a 125 gr.

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger
Back to Top
cbm View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: January/11/2008
Location: SC
Status: Offline
Points: 580
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cbm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2010 at 08:19

Depends. What kind of bow do you shoot ? Draw length? poundage? What arrows, spine, and overall length are they ?

I would say if you have an average set up your probably under spined for those broadheads. You can : drop your poundage, possibly cut your arrows down, or change arrows. If you happened to be on the stiffer side of your spine range then they make work fine.
 
I seriously doubt your spine is so low that it would be dangerous to try the Razorbacks , but it certainly would not hurt to research it a little before screwing one on ! I personally like a heavy arrow for penetration and a quiet shot !
Back to Top
cyborg View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Gaseous Clay

Joined: August/24/2007
Location: North Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2010 at 11:21
Some of this can be negated by use of an overdraw. This allows for a shorter arrow, and hence less spine flex, and faster arrow speed.
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg
Back to Top
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2010 at 15:51
I will know more about the draw weight tonight I am carrying it to a store to measure it.  Then i can figure out what arrows i truely need.  I am guessing its gonna be right at 58-60#s
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
Back to Top
lucytuma View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: November/25/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 5389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucytuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2010 at 16:36
The 100gr broad head is pretty much the standard for white tails today.  Yes there are applications and animals that dictate the use of different weights and stiles.
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
Back to Top
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 07:24
Ok so everything got measured last night.
Draw weight 61#'s
Needed Arrow Length - 28.5"
Current arrows 4570
 
The guy said I could try the 143gr on those arrows with no problems,  I'd rather have a second opinion.
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
Back to Top
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 08:24
 G,I don't believe you'll have any safety or equipment problems with trying those arrows.  Only thing will happen is if the FOC is too far forward your arrows will nose dive. 
"I ain't got time to bleed!"
Back to Top
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 08:34
FOC?  i'm a dummy when it comes to this. whats that mean.
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
Back to Top
300S&W View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: January/27/2008
Location: Burlington,WV
Status: Offline
Points: 10592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 09:01
 FOC Balance Point (FOC or the balance point forward of the center of the arrow)
Arrow balance point presents us with some tradeoffs. If you keep the arrow’s nose light it will remain a little more level in the air and actually plane or sail along a flatter trajectory than it would if the nose were heavier and it flew pointing more nose downward. On the other side of the tradeoff is stability. The closer the center of gravity gets to the physical center of the arrow the more unstable the arrow becomes while in flight. Take it to the extreme. If the center of gravity were behind the physical center of the arrow it would actually flip around as soon as it left the bow and try to fly tail first. The closer you get to a tail heavy arrow the more unstable it becomes.

There’s an archery term that’s used to describe an arrow’s balance point. It’s called Forward of Center, or FOC. You arrive at FOC by making a few measurements and then running the numbers through a simple formula. Here’s the process:

Balance point:

1m.jpg Install the tip you will be shooting. If you are testing stability for 3-D shooting put your field point or nibb into the arrow. Of course, for hunting install your broadhead. Find the arrow’s balance point by sliding it back and forth along a fairly sharp edge. You’ll find the spot where the arrow just balances. Mark it carefully. Now measure from the bottom of the nock groove to the balance point and write this number down for later.

Overall length:

There are different conventions for measuring overall arrow length depending upon the type of point you are using.

Arrows that include inserts: Measure from the bottom of the nock groove to the end of the arrow not including the insert. This is often referred to as the arrow’s cut length.

Shafts with swaged tips: The overall length is measured from the bottom of the nock groove to the most forward extension of the full diameter of the shaft, just behind the swage.

Shafts that include outserts: Measure from the nock groove to a point ¾ inch forward of the rearward end of the outsert.

Shafts with glue-on heads: Measure from the nock groove to the most rearward portion of the glue-on point.

Determine FOC:

To find the FOC (which is always expressed as a percentage) divide the overall length by two. This should produce the physical center of the shaft. Now subtract this number from the balance point and divide by the overall length. Multiply by 100 to express the fractional value as a percentage.

Most expert archers agree that an FOC value that is between 7 and 10 percent will produce the best compromise between stability and a flat trajectory. The American Society for Testing and Materials, in their specification for measuring balance point, state that a value of 9% is typical. But, they also state that the range can be as wide as 7% to 18% while still producing good arrow flight characteristics.

The best way to achieve your desired FOC is to try several different weight field points until you hit the right balance. However, if you are sold on a particular broadhead that’s too heavy to permit the arrow to fall into the desired FOC range, you can change from feathers to vanes. You can change from aluminum inserts to lighter composite inserts or you can even play some games with the weight of the nock end. For example, you can experiment with adding weight by placing a narrow strip of lead tape around the shaft just behind the fletching. Make sure it fully circles the shaft so you don’t introduce a wobble. You can get lead tape from any full-service golf supply shop.

"I ain't got time to bleed!"
Back to Top
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 09:09
Thanks E. 
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
Back to Top
TheDuke View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: August/19/2010
Location: FLA
Status: Offline
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDuke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2010 at 14:18
Nice info on balance points. Fletching size can also come into play. I tend to like heavier set ups as they penetrate better and in bow hunting (and other things) its ALL about the penetration!. I shoot a 70# now with 125 gn heads and they weight in at like 525 gns total per arrow. I get about 260FPS out of this and have shot through animals as large as Kudo with no problem. Loose Rule of thumb is you'll lose about 1 fps per every 5 grains of weight so you will see a slow down in speed and trajectory especially out near the 50 yards you mention.
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2010 at 18:40
I've been using 100 gr broadheads (Muzzys, Thunderheads, and now G5 Montecs) for 25 years, have killed many animals with them out of 70 lb draw bows, have never had the first problem, and with few exceptions, all have been complete pass-throughs.  I've found that 100 gr broadheads have been easiest for me to tune with my draw length (29") and arrow weight (about 450 gr. total).  If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I say.
 
Overdraws are basically a thing of the past these days, as they make your setup less forgiving and noisier.  At one time, they were very popular because of the speed increase you got from using the shorter arrows.  Modern bows have now become so efficient that you can get the kind of speeds without them that you used to get with them.
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
REP View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: July/01/2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote REP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/08/2010 at 20:39
Originally posted by Bigdaddy0381 Bigdaddy0381 wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Think it would hurt to take them and test them on my existing arrows to see how they fly?  I dont' want to do any damage to my bow.
 
yes, if the arrow is not spined right it can shatter. then you will need to go and have the ER dig it out of your arm and face. I would make sure you have the right aroows first.
 


+1

Enough is to much.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.664 seconds.