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I can't help it I like Leupold!!!

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    Posted: July/16/2010 at 18:46
Crap!!! I know you guys have told me 50 times that Leupold is not offering up to sniff glass these days and I have listened. And yes there is a but!!

If I am following well; the over all opinion here is that everything that Leupold is offering with the exception of the VX-3 is inferior in the glass to dollar department. 

Now before you guys start scolding me for holding on to the idea of buying a Leupold product please hear me out cause there are sound reasons.

If you will remember from my earlier post I am looking for a nice mid line offering somewhere in the 4-14 x 50 range with a German #4  illuminated.

Everything that I found was ether way out of my price range; junk or I had to leave something out. With the exception of Leupold; they offered the closest thing to it that I could afford right off the shelf. And in a very high quality and full featured offering.

Whats more; they offer an impressive array of  reasonably priced custom shop services should I want to make changes to its original configuration.

Now I heard the glass opinions here and it did make me look away. That is until I talked with Leupold's tech guy on the phone and learned that the Mark 4 scope that I was considering came with the same glass that you guys considered exceptional in the VX-3 line; I thank they call it twilight or something.

Now with this knowledge I am finding it hard and harder to look away. They have an excellent customer service program. One of the best warranty in the industry. An unbelievable reasonably priced and feature packed custom shop. And unless there is more to know isn't the Mark 4 built to military specs and tolerances?

What are your thought? Are there any beefs with this perticular model?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 19:06
 REP,I think you'll find the general consensus here is that we choose scopes to fit a purpose.  If it happens to be a Leupold so be it.  Anymore there are just SO MANY excellent offerings of different brands that a person would be doing themselves a huge disservice by swearing by one brand.  
 
  Oh,I resently got rid of one Leupold that didn't work out and got another Leupold that did.


Edited by 300S&W - July/16/2010 at 19:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sakomato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 20:42
Friends don't let friends look through Leupolds
 
Get the Zeiss
 
 
save $700.00 and have better glass
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 20:43
im going to try and break my 12x leupold with my .300wby one of these days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 21:00
I destroyed 2 Mark 4 Ultras back in the day, I don't buy Leupold.

My complaint ain't the glass.  (Or, rather, that ain't my first complaint.)

Be sure, with your new Leupold, you get dope at every used power setting, they have a nasty habit of changing point of impact when you change power.  Even the Mark 4s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teddy Bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 22:47
Your the one thats going to be looking through it, sounds like you've already made up your mind, buy whatever turns your crank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YakAk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 22:54
I never liked them and never will.  I will leave it that.


Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote REP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 23:24
Originally posted by sakomato sakomato wrote:

Friends don't let friends look through Leupolds
 
Get the Zeiss
 
 
save $700.00 and have better glass


Good suggestion I have looked long and hard at just that scope. The question is where is the illumination or the 30mm tube etc.etc. Boo Hoo Take scope feature for feature and you have to spend $2700.00 to get a Zeiss with all that the Mark 4 has. I know their glass is out standing; I've even stated in earlier post that the Zeiss had the brightest glass that I have ever seen and mean it. Question is, is it $1400.00 better? I aprechate and respect any and all who care enough to try and help with their post here.

I just have a hard time being a kinda guy that will crusade agents any company etc. because of one or two bad experiences. I mean look at it; I have personally know of only one Leupold having a problem in my limited exposure. ( owned or own about 7 in their upper line) Now should I go on a campaign against the hole company? I don't know of any maker of anything that don't turn out a lemon now and then.  

On the other hand I would do just that if I was refused good customer service when seeking help trying to fix the matter. But the one issue that I have had with Leupold Was handled with a sincere apology free next day air service for the repairs and a nice hat and cleaning pin to boot up on what I would consider a speedily return.

How many company's do we know of out there that has made the effort to be as full featured and reactive as that? I don't of any that come even close. I learned today that I can send in one of my VX-3's for not only a complete going through free of charge but that they will also change out my turrets and recital to what ever configuration I want, add illumination turned around and back in two weeks for less than $300.00. Is this not a company finally listing to us and going to the expense and effort of offering what we have been asking for?

I don't know guys; these people seem to be trying awfully hard to be allowed to be run down to much. Maybe I haven't heard all the story's but I have heard Leupold's people seem very concerned and interested anytime I've had a problem or question.

Don't you think this is worth some consideration?        


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 23:48
If Leupold is the scope that fits your needs, then that is the right scope for you.  There is nothing particularly wrong with Leupolds except for the price.

A few comments on the things you said in this thread:  VX-3 glass is not exceptional.  It is finally in line with the competition.  

Why do you insist on a 30mm tube?  Tube diameter is not a feature, it is an attribute.

On the Mark 4 scope: didn't you say you want a #4 reticle?  Last I looked at it, that was not one of the options in the Mark 4.

Now, if you are set on an illuminated reticle Mark 4, which retails for ~$1400, that opens up your options considerably.

Burris XTR 4-16x50 is cheaper and also has an illuminated MilDot:

Weaver Super Slam Euro 4-20x50 has an illuminated #4:

IOR's 4-14x50 is available for ~$1100 with illuminated #4:

or with illuminated MP-8 for a touch over $1200:

All of these options are cheaper than the Mark 4 and are either better or as good.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 00:16
Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

 REP,I think you'll find the general consensus here is that we choose scopes to fit a purpose.  If it happens to be a Leupold so be it.  Anymore there are just SO MANY excellent offerings of different brands that a person would be doing themselves a huge disservice by swearing by one brand.  
 
  Oh,I resently got rid of one Leupold that didn't work out and got another Leupold that did.
I agree completely. I have 3 Leupolds and will be getting rid of one because it just is not what I need. A Leupold currently owned but off another rifle will replace it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote REP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 09:22
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If Leupold is the scope that fits your needs, then that is the right scope for you.  There is nothing particularly wrong with Leupolds except for the price.

A few comments on the things you said in this thread:  VX-3 glass is not exceptional.  It is finally in line with the competition.  

Why do you insist on a 30mm tube?  Tube diameter is not a feature, it is an attribute.

On the Mark 4 scope: didn't you say you want a #4 reticle?  Last I looked at it, that was not one of the options in the Mark 4.

Now, if you are set on an illuminated reticle Mark 4, which retails for ~$1400, that opens up your options considerably.

Burris XTR 4-16x50 is cheaper and also has an illuminated MilDot:

Weaver Super Slam Euro 4-20x50 has an illuminated #4:

IOR's 4-14x50 is available for ~$1100 with illuminated #4:

or with illuminated MP-8 for a touch over $1200:

All of these options are cheaper than the Mark 4 and are either better or as good.

ILya



Thanks for the recommendations here I may be able to learn something. To a large degree my liking of Leupold is based on my experience with them good and bad.

 Even how long I am on hold on the phone as a customer speaks volumes to me as to a companies concern for customer care. Can you say that these offerings are backed by the same well structured and equipped customer care program?

What would happen if I were to have a failure and have to call IOR etc.. Not saying this negatively; simply asking would they no questions asked apologize for my trouble and make arrangements and hold to a turn around like I described in my post?

I really like IOR and Zeiss as well but when I am shopping for something as costly as this out of necessity I am shopping for the whole package if you can relate.

Back too the 30mm tube thing; again this is just another desirable feature that I like. It would not be a deciding factor if it were the diff between something more beneficial like glass quality etc. But I do like the thought of getting all you can for the money. And it has to serve better than the 1" other wise why would all the better brands use them in their premium offerings; here I am describing logic to my self when giving consideration.

Oh and you are right about the #4 not being standard in the mark 4. I did not mean to imply this but after reading back through I did. I would have to make arrangements to have this added after the purchase. Leupold tells me that it is a $70.00 all in and that I should have the scope back in my hands in a week to 10 days after shipping to them.

Keep them coming I am enjoying the fellowship and the learning experience. And I might add out of fairness; Zeiss sent me a hat and cleaning kit the other day as well. LOL         
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1911man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 09:26
I've used Leu for years and really had very little issues with them, even dropped a rifle out of the land cruser in Africa and it landed on a rocky ledge, went to the range and it was only off 1" at 100yds !!!! Still using that scope................... and their customer service, what can I say second best in the gun industry (WC is the best of course(-: ).
 
That said I don't buy Leu anymore because their optical quality (especially in low light) is just not up to what most other are. The $140. Konus I've been torture testing has better optical quality than my VX3s............................. and they just have not seemed to get their illum system right. I use a lot of illum scopes and just don't trust Leu or Burris to light up when I need them. Since most of the cheap PRC mfg illum work I just can't see how two big name companies like Leu and Burris can't get this right ?????
 
Of course Trijicon is the all around answer if you can afford one.................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 09:51
Originally posted by REP REP wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If Leupold is the scope that fits your needs, then that is the right scope for you.  There is nothing particularly wrong with Leupolds except for the price.

A few comments on the things you said in this thread:  VX-3 glass is not exceptional.  It is finally in line with the competition.  

Why do you insist on a 30mm tube?  Tube diameter is not a feature, it is an attribute.

On the Mark 4 scope: didn't you say you want a #4 reticle?  Last I looked at it, that was not one of the options in the Mark 4.

Now, if you are set on an illuminated reticle Mark 4, which retails for ~$1400, that opens up your options considerably.

Burris XTR 4-16x50 is cheaper and also has an illuminated MilDot:

Weaver Super Slam Euro 4-20x50 has an illuminated #4:

IOR's 4-14x50 is available for ~$1100 with illuminated #4:

or with illuminated MP-8 for a touch over $1200:

All of these options are cheaper than the Mark 4 and are either better or as good.

ILya



Thanks for the recommendations here I may be able to learn something. To a large degree my liking of Leupold is based on my experience with them good and bad.

 Even how long I am on hold on the phone as a customer speaks volumes to me as to a companies concern for customer care. Can you say that these offerings are backed by the same well structured and equipped customer care program?

What would happen if I were to have a failure and have to call IOR etc.. Not saying this negatively; simply asking would they no questions asked apologize for my trouble and make arrangements and hold to a turn around like I described in my post?

I really like IOR and Zeiss as well but when I am shopping for something as costly as this out of necessity I am shopping for the whole package if you can relate.

Back too the 30mm tube thing; again this is just another desirable feature that I like. It would not be a deciding factor if it were the diff between something more beneficial like glass quality etc. But I do like the thought of getting all you can for the money. And it has to serve better than the 1" other wise why would all the better brands use them in their premium offerings; here I am describing logic to my self when giving consideration.

Oh and you are right about the #4 not being standard in the mark 4. I did not mean to imply this but after reading back through I did. I would have to make arrangements to have this added after the purchase. Leupold tells me that it is a $70.00 all in and that I should have the scope back in my hands in a week to 10 days after shipping to them.

Keep them coming I am enjoying the fellowship and the learning experience. And I might add out of fairness; Zeiss sent me a hat and cleaning kit the other day as well. LOL         

the only thing you will really gain with a 30mm tube is added strength. the reason that all the high end scopes use at least a 30mm tube is so they can charge you moreBucky
it sounds to me like youve already made up your mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 09:59
Don't get blinded by "features" that you will not use.  Make a mission list of that the scope should do for you.  What are you using the scope for?
 
There is a lot of really really good glass cheap out there now a days, with everybody and thier brother making digital cameras.  There is no real excusse for Leupold to have the poor quality glass it has for the money it charges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 13:09
Vortex is a more innovative, customer-oriented company than Leupold these days. I doubt I'll buy another Leupold, but one thing I like about my one remaining Leupy (an FX-II 4X) is the Alumina Raincote lens covers. They're easy to clean and protect the scope's optics. One thing I don't like is that all three Leupolds I've owned have suffered from unreliable turrets. If I needed to adjust the scope to move 1/2 MOA it always seems to move 1 MOA. So I've always first set it 1 MOA over then backed off 1/2 MOA to get what I wanted in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 15:49
SmileMost of my scopes are Leupolds and have been bought used - Leupold service is excellent. I do have 2 Zeiss 3-9 Conquests that I think have better optics than my Leu 3.5-10 but the Leupold has proven to be totally reliable for many years of hard use and is more compact so I hunt with it more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote REP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2010 at 19:02
Originally posted by silver silver wrote:

Don't get blinded by "features" that you will not use.  Make a mission list of that the scope should do for you.  What are you using the scope for?
 
There is a lot of really really good glass cheap out there now a days, with everybody and thier brother making digital cameras.  There is no real excusse for Leupold to have the poor quality glass it has for the money it charges.


This is very true as to the glass quality. I spent a good bit of time on the phone with one Leupold's tech guys and told him what the over all consensus was of just that.

 Surprisingly he agreed and told me that they were working on it. Now what that means only they know.

As for me I think that if we have a company saying that want to here from us the end users so that they can make things better. Than let them have it; We should all drop a letter or e-mail expressing or thoughts.

I know if I were someone involved in their corp. I would be all over input from guys like our fellow members. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote REP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2010 at 19:03
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Vortex is a more innovative, customer-oriented company than Leupold these days. I doubt I'll buy another Leupold, but one thing I like about my one remaining Leupy (an FX-II 4X) is the Alumina Raincote lens covers. They're easy to clean and protect the scope's optics. One thing I don't like is that all three Leupolds I've owned have suffered from unreliable turrets. If I needed to adjust the scope to move 1/2 MOA it always seems to move 1 MOA. So I've always first set it 1 MOA over then backed off 1/2 MOA to get what I wanted in the first place.


Thanks, I'm going to have a look at their offerings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 308WIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2010 at 04:20
i wish leupold would use etched reticles that stay black like zeiss....... a VX3 with a little "meatier" (like a zeiss) etched duplex would be nice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeffO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2010 at 13:47
I've gotten addicted to the much more constant eye relief of (say) a Conquest, also.
 
It doesn't get talked about much; in fact guys will deny it till the cows come home rather than admit they crawl the stock.  But at least with the Leup's I've owned, there's so much change in ER as you increase power, and the sweet spot at full power is NOT where it is at minimum power.... so a guy has a choice to make.  Mount the scope to get a full picture at full power, and lose a bunch of that vaunted Leup eye box at low power.  Mount it where you get the full value of the huge eye box at low power settings, and watch the image recede dramatically and lose your full field of view at full power settings.  Or crawl forward on the stock to chase the image as you increase power.
 
None of those are great options IMHO.
 
Anyways on say a Conquest 3-9, this is much, much less of an issue and I've kind of come to really appreciate that.
 
As always, just IMHO and YMMV and I don't know squat about this stuff <grin>.
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