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Seeing bullet holes |
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Waskawood1
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/12/2009 Location: Starbuck MN Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Posted: July/15/2010 at 08:04 |
My main mission with buying a new spotter is seeing 6mm holes at 600 yards. Size and weight are mo concern. I was about ready to purchase a 80mm Pentax with an SMC eyepiece based on what I have read on this forum. My question is, would I be better off buying better glass in a 65mm size instead of poorer glass in 80mm? Does light gathering or glass quality improve my chances of seeing holes? Thanks again for any help.
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Waska
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22287 |
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Seeing 6mm bullit holes at 600yds is a tall order for any spotter except under ideal atmospheric conditions. I don't think going down in objective size with better glass from the Pentax is going to give you much of an improvement if any, but I could be wrong (I'm not an expert, or a current pert, but I am a pre-pert).
You may consider saving a little more money and go with the Vortex Razor spotter. From the reviews I've read, it's as close as you can get to the alpha scopes without the expense. You still have the 80mm objective for the brighter image and the contrast to pick up those bullit holes.
I have the Pentax and on a hot, sunny, slightly humid day I was able to see 30 cal. holes at 300yds, but I missed a few that were up in the logo of the target. Maybe if I had looked harder I would have seen them, but who knows now. On that day I don't know if I could have seen any bullit hole at 600yds.
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Waskawood1
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/12/2009 Location: Starbuck MN Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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I understand I will not be able to see them all the time. Our league shoot is early in the morning and the guys with 42-50 power scopes say they see their holes at times. I was prepared to spend the money on a Pentax PF-80 so that brought up the question of spending the same amount on a 65mm spotter with better glass. I appreciate your input.
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Waska
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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Bullet holes at 600 yards, not gonna happen with the Pentax.
Choot-n-C targets will give you a slightly higher probability of seeing the shot, but 600 yards is a long way out, and - without spending a vast sum of money - probably beyond visual range for any but the absolute best spotters on the market. (And, even with the absolute best, if the circumstances ain't perfect, even the best aren't good enough.) Shoot with someone capable of spotting a vapor trail and watch the round in that fashion. And do what we do beyond 500 yards: put up larger targets, fire a group, drive out and mark, dope change accordingly. And buy a good wind meter. I recommend the Kestrel 4500. |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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At 45X they see 6mm holes? What scopes are they using?
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Waskawood1
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/12/2009 Location: Starbuck MN Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Waska
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Waskawood1
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/12/2009 Location: Starbuck MN Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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target. If a spotter can't do it, it can't. I just needed to get more info before sending chris more money.
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Waska
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JGRaider
Optics Master Joined: February/06/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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Any spotter with premium glass, i.e NikonFieldscope, Pentax ED, Swaro Zeiss, Kowa, Razor, etc in 80-88mm obj size will show you more detail than the exact same spotters with 60-65mm glass every time, period. You can't change physics.
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Waskawood1
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/12/2009 Location: Starbuck MN Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Waska
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stickbow46
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/07/2009 Location: Benton, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4678 |
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I beleive the Alpha glass will give you better resolution & clarity but the larger object will allow you better detail as noted by JGRider.Best if you could get to a range that sponsers 600yrd shoots,I'm sure most of the shooters would be willing to let you have a look threw there scopes!
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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken
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Blackbird
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/10/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 284 |
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Not to steal your thread, but, I have the Pentax PF-80ED with the 20-60X zoom eyepiece, and I can see 6mm bullet holes "in the white", on occasion at 500 yards. My question is, would I gain more clarity/resolution if I were to go with a fixed eyepiece such as the XW-10, which would be 50X,
or
the XW-14, which would be 36X,
or
the XW-20, which would be 26X.
Can any of you spotting scope gurus recommend the best eyepiece magnification (of the 3 above mentioned) for 500-1200 yard viewing, calling hits on live ground-hogs, and seeing holes in white paper targets at these ranges ?
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flatcooky
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/02/2010 Location: puget sound Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Not a guru, but I do have the 10x eyepiece on the PF-80ED, I find that the image is slightly better that the zoom eyepiece at equal power.
Weather condition being perfect I can spot 6.5mm holes at our 550yrd range in the white. Brown corrugated cardboard is also a contract.
Believe it or not the zoom eyepiece is quite excellent in all its power ranges as you know. Buying a 10x will not improve the clarity and or resolution by the margin you are spending for it, $300. But if it's critical that you spot at 500 yards accurately, I'd say go for it. It's truly a nice hunk of glass.
I considered getting the 7x, but at that magnification you're exit pupil is severely diminished and with the 10x light is quickly stolen closer to dusk than at lower powers.
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flatcooky
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/02/2010 Location: puget sound Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Brown corrugated cardboard is also a good contrast..... couldn't find the edit feature....
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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You guys are SO negative and this is SOOO easy...
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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I was at the range Friday morning and it only hit 65 degrees. Yet there was noticeable mirage visible in the two spotters I had access to. One was my POS $70 refurb Bushnell @ 36X and the other was Bushnell as well, one of those models around $350-400 with better glass and @ 45X. The latter was better, as you would expect, but I found I could almost do as well with the much superior glass in my Premier Heritage set @ 15X.
So I'd be inclined to say get the best glass you can afford, even if it means a smaller objective (and a slight loss of resolution because of the physical size). But nothing can overcome dust and mirage. |
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