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Interesting observation on fixed power scopes

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bert gummer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bert gummer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2010 at 20:48
Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Every time I think going to a fixed power scope would be a good idea I wake up and realize it was just a bad dream.
 
Good one I like it.....
 
 
slow is smooth, smooth is fast. right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 08:17
Ilya must have watched the same Mythbusters double feature on Duct tape I watched last night.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 16:12
Well, let's look at it this way: You've got two brothers -  Joe and Loe Blow. Each has $500 to spend, has little time and not enough knowledge or interest to become a true long-range shooter. Loe goes out and buys a $450 4-16 and two boxes of cartridges. Meanwhile Joe puts $270 into a Leupold FX-II 4X and the rest into ammo and goes out and shoots four times as much as Loe. I will bet my money on Joe, who has a far simpler setup and knows his scope, his rifle and himself.

IMO, until you know how why it's important to know which variables to change when using standard vs. corrected pressure in a ballistics calculator, a scope that goes beyond 4X is a waste.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 16:18
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Well, let's look at it this way: You've got two brothers -  Joe and Loe Blow. Each has $500 to spend, has little time and not enough knowledge or interest to become a true long-range shooter. Loe goes out and buys a $450 4-16 and two boxes of cartridges. Meanwhile Joe puts $270 into a Leupold FX-II 4X and the rest into ammo and goes out and shoots four times as much as Loe. I will bet my money on Joe, who has a far simpler setup and knows his scope, his rifle and himself.

IMO, until you know how why it's important to know which variables to change when using standard vs. corrected pressure in a ballistics calculator, a scope that goes beyond 4X is a waste.

A good example, but kinda apples-to-oranges.  

What if instead of buying a $450 4-16x scope, Loe goes out and buys a 3-9x40 Vortex Viper for about $300 or 2-7x32 Viper for about $270 and ends up with an optically superior and more versatile scope than Joe, accompanied by the same amount of practice ammo.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 16:21
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:



IMO, until you know how why it's important to know which variables to change when using standard vs. corrected pressure in a ballistics calculator, a scope that goes beyond 4X is a waste.


Being able to zoom up to 9X has allowed me to make shots that I have passed on before with a fixed 4X. I have the resolution that I need to see that the deer is moving in and out of saplings that just can't be seen with the lower power.
I didn't need a calculator for that.

Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gunshow75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 17:41

Because our brain can more readily recognize large objects than it can recognize small ones, when possible, making the target a large part of the image is an advantage.  Having the ability to change the magnification can provide that advantage. 

From my point of view, denying the advantages of variable magnification is like denying the advantages of going to school.


Tom



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 17:42
Originally posted by Gunshow75 Gunshow75 wrote:

Because our brain can more readily recognize large objects than it can recognize small ones, when possible, making the target a large part of the image is an advantage.  Having the ability to change the magnification can provide that advantage. 

From my point of view, denying the advantages of variable magnification is like denying the advantages of going to school.

Welcome back, Tom!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gunshow75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 17:50
Thanks!  My wife and I have been traveling.


Tom



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 18:22
Great to see you back Tom!

Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JF4545 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 18:53
Like Many others I keep my scope on 3 or 4 power while hunting. Where I live in OR. there are many wide open areas and the scope power usually goes up to 5 or 6 even....Maybe its just MY eyes but I love having higher magnifications available to me while hunting. If Im walking along a hillside and want to look under some tall grass in front of me to see if those are horns poking up thru the grass. Well I pretty much automatically dial the scope from the lower setting to max. which is normally 10X or so. When I see horns on that Buck laying under the grass, hell its just a second or two and Ive fired my first shot and Im ready for another shot if I need it....Sometimes when that first Buck goes down , another pops up from the sound of the shot and Im still on the proper power for me, even if it takes a few seconds to find him in my scope... I just don't see all that well at 3X when shooting 150-250 yards out it seems...Even when hunting in thick dark timber, I like to dial in to 9X or so to see what it really is Im looking at, as most of you have said you only may have a second or two for all this to come together and make your shot....

Edited by JF4545 - July/08/2010 at 18:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2010 at 20:48
To me, having a variable power scope just makes more sense. Terry Lamb ecohed a story that I hear often from the " Fixation on Fixed " crowd and that is all the missed shots/oportunities cause the shooter was putzing with the power selector. Oldly enough, these fixed power scope guys will have "Sniper" turrets on these fixed power scopes which makes we wonder how they can resist spinning a turret yet a power selector ring renders them incapable of resisting temptation. Not to worry though as the fixed power guys will have plenty of answers for that one. Are these guys running turrets and mil dot reticles using laser rangefinders ? My guess is probably so, but these items apparently don't slow them down like that damn power selector ring, or so they proclaim. And did you know that the guys running fixed power scopes are more "serious" about hunting ? Yep, according to them serious hunters only run fixed power scopes because apparently variable scopes are still unreliable.

In the end, guys will blame missed opportunities on that pesky, irresistible variable power scope long before they will admit that they developed bad habits that they cannot or will not take the time to break themselves of through range time or modern medicine for ADD. Just my 2 cents worth.

Edited by Roy Finn - July/08/2010 at 20:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2010 at 07:33
 "the clients then devote often very critical time to fussing with all the adjustments on their high-end, high-mag, tall-turret-covered bulky scopes instead of just shooting the animal in a timely  fashion."
 
  Gotta be fair.  It wasn't JUST the power selector causing the problem.
 
 Maybe it's a "short cuts to hunting success through modern technology" problem for some?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1911man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2010 at 08:58
I really like the concept of a fixed power being more rugged but the way I hunt a 2-8 or 3-9 just makes sense. I normally use a Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40 and have it set on 8x or 9x for taking a precision neck shot on a hog or a long shot on a coyote. But it sure was nice to have the ability to crank down to 3x on those occasions that I have had to follow up a big wounded hog in the real thick stuff.....................
 
I have to be fairly hard on scopes too. I take care of my stuff and don't abuse them, but I USE them. My rifles are subjected to almost daily shooting and bouncing around on a ATV or in my Kawasaki Mule over rough areas from hog rooting. So far I have had no scope failures from Leupold, Bushnell, Zeiss or Trijicon products and this is why most of my rifles have Trijicon Accupoints or Bushnell Elite's mounted on them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2010 at 12:06
There is no doubt that the set of applications for fixed power scopes is growing smaller as technology advances and variables become more dependable AND more variable.  Bigger differences in low to high end increase utility and people's desire to have a variable.  As the ages of people who were "raised" on fixed power scopes increases and more and more of those people assume room temperature, the "Age of Variables" ascends.  Fixed power scopes will always have a niche and a market, but just look at the number of fixed powers offered now versus only a scant 10 years ago.  Many vendors are eliminating whole lines of fixed power scopes offering up "new and improved" variable power ranges via significantly extended erector ranges.  It just gets better. 
I like the fixed power scopes I have, but they fit a very small subset of the rifles I own and the uses I have for them.  I like iron sights, but, as any honest agent will admit, shoot much better with a scope.  Oh, I can still hit a target pretty danged far away with open sights, but I can place a bullet exactly where I want it with the proper scope.  A difference that is worth considering and valuing...
I can remember a time, not that long ago, when I mentioned using a 6-20x56 for hunting and took a lot of flack for not using a 4x or 3-9, from some who now toute the virtues of wide-range variables.  However, times, needs, wants and realities change.  As a matter of fact, one of the smartest people I ever knew stated, at least daily, that the only constant is change...
Welcome back, Sir Gunshow75... I've wondered what happened to you.  Glad to see you back with us...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graysteel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2010 at 15:10
I have to confess that I have a real like for fixed power scopes. My experience has been all that fixed power scopes are more durable. And given the same quality scope they are going to be brighter (in my opinion noticeably) because there are simply less lens surfaces to pass.

On the flip side... when shooting groundhogs... a nice 4x16 is nice when you have to go from shooting a moving  one to hitting one in the head that is half in a den.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2010 at 15:21

Another voice we have not heard from much lately.   Good to hear from you Graysteel. 

Wait a minute... did you and Gunshow run off together/????
 
Kidding.   A big HOWDY to you...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeffO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2010 at 15:59
Laffin'!  (inside joke).  I know JUST who you are talking about, Roy!
 
Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

To me, having a variable power scope just makes more sense. Terry Lamb ecohed a story that I hear often from the " Fixation on Fixed " crowd and that is all the missed shots/oportunities cause the shooter was putzing with the power selector. Oldly enough, these fixed power scope guys will have "Sniper" turrets on these fixed power scopes which makes we wonder how they can resist spinning a turret yet a power selector ring renders them incapable of resisting temptation. Not to worry though as the fixed power guys will have plenty of answers for that one. Are these guys running turrets and mil dot reticles using laser rangefinders ? My guess is probably so, but these items apparently don't slow them down like that damn power selector ring, or so they proclaim. And did you know that the guys running fixed power scopes are more "serious" about hunting ? Yep, according to them serious hunters only run fixed power scopes because apparently variable scopes are still unreliable.

In the end, guys will blame missed opportunities on that pesky, irresistible variable power scope long before they will admit that they developed bad habits that they cannot or will not take the time to break themselves of through range time or modern medicine for ADD. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2010 at 16:04
Yup, lots of broken variables and shot out 270 barrels...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeffO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2010 at 16:01
I see it as similar to the "TSX wars" in the sense that I simply have not seen the problem (variables breaking) that requires the fixed-power solution.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2010 at 16:05
That's simply because you are not (odviously) a "serious hunter".  Not to worry though, cause I'm not either. Wink
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