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Clean cold bore shot

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2010 at 08:12
Originally posted by Ernie Bishop Ernie Bishop wrote:

I wonder how many who do clean their barrels often, truly know whether or not the bore is really clean.
The only way I can know if my bore is clean or if I got all the carbon out is with a bore scope.
Anyone else have a sure fire way for those who clean their barrels??
 
I did take my rifle to a competent gunsmith to check with a bore scope. This was after approx 1500 rounds. Found the barrel clean with very little copper or carbon present. He is a hard assed guy and would not have hesitated to chew my ear if (a) the barrel was dirty or (b) I was damaging the barrel during my cleanup process. He himself is a competive and good benchrest shooter.
He gave my cleaning process the thumbs up.Thunbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2010 at 10:31

Visual results from a bore scope don't directly correlate with accuracy, especially anything measurable. A shooter will deem his rifle accurate when the shots land within his call radius. When the shots fall outside the call radius (how good he knows he can shoot) the rifle or load is deemed inaccurate. Call radius varies with positon, and type of event and has the shortest time frame in pistol action shooting. One of the few concepts that span the entire spectrum of the shooting sports from shotgun thru handguns to prone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ernie Bishop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2010 at 10:39
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

Visual results from a bore scope don't directly correlate with accuracy, especially anything measurable. A shooter will deem his rifle accurate when the shots land within his call radius. When the shots fall outside the call radius (how good he knows he can shoot) the rifle or load is deemed inaccurate. Call radius varies with position, and type of event and has the shortest time frame in pistol action shooting. One of the few concepts that span the entire spectrum of the shooting sports from shotgun thru handguns to prone.



Agreed!
Ernie



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote majog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2012 at 13:21
I recently bought a REM 700 SPS Tactical AAC in a 308.   After shooting it in I cold bore shot a 3 shot group you could easiliy cover with a dime at 100yd.   The next 3 shots were exactly 2 inches right from where the other group hit.  They too were able to be covered with a dime.   For the life of me I could not think what I did different and it kept nagging at me until I realized the first 3 were cold bore - clean bore. 
After doing some research I ran across this forum and decided to try an experiment.  I shot 3 shots cold and clean, 3 warm, 3 cold and not cleaned, and 20 in a row.
 
Results are as follows:
Cold and clean 1" high - 1" left  and 1 MOA group
Cold and dirty 1" high - .5 left and .5 MOA group
Warm - x mark .5 and .5 MOA group
20 shot group cold barrel and dirty x mark to 2" high and left with various groups of accuracy but overall about just over a 2" group
20 shots warm (post 3 shot group) x mark to 1"high/right with better overall subgroups and about a MOA overall spread.
 
OK so what did I learn.   Probably fire a couple after cleaning and realize that you have to know where cold bore hits.   It may be a lot or little but each load can be different too.   At 100 yds not a biggie but a 300 or better a major challenge if unprepared.  I also found that with that number 8 barrel size I need at least 3 shots to see a difference. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2012 at 13:36

majog, yours have the hogue stock?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2012 at 13:51
I am thinking yours probably has more to do with the stock than with clean cold bore.  It should not take 3 shots to fowl your bore.  The fact that you are getting 2 groups like that lead me to believe it is something else at work, like maybe your stock heating up and touching your barrel.  Or the shooter preloading your bipod differently or something.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RotoReuter_DM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2012 at 14:21
At the Marine Corps Designated Marksman school we are told to either clean the barrel the same way every day or not at all. My personal instructor told me he had seen better results from students who never cleaned their barrels. I took his advice and was one of the 14 who passed out of 28 who started. We used M14's with green McMillan stocks not ultra accurate weapons but accurate enough. So I only bore snake my rifles once in a blue moon and they shoot well. My 2 cents
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2012 at 14:54
Far more barrels are destroyed by cleaning than my shooting.

That said, I clean my bore probably more than I should, but never during hunting season or when shooting with great regularity. And always with care what chemicals go into the barrel and what goes in last.


And, as said before, I always foul the bore with a shot or 2 after cleaning.  I find clean bore to vary much more than cold bore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2012 at 19:42
I use 300 clean patches per cleaning... or was that 3. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brad4213 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2012 at 21:37
I have a Remington 700 sps in .300WM, it does shoot better when it is dirty although i clean it every few trips to the range but i do notice the difference between a clean and dirty barrel. I got a boresnake for Xmas so im just gonna give that a try for the whole year, i dont shoot it enough to worry about it being too dirty. I was always told to keep your rifle clean so it operates properly, atleast thats what was told in hunters ed and any gun manual that has come with any of my guns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevey Ducks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2012 at 01:21
Eventually they got to be cleaned - can you imagine any high velocity rifle fired for over 2000 rounds or more without cleaning - carbon, copper fouling and the like. Many bore solvents are sold. I have read about shooters than never ever clean rifle barrels.
 
Generally I periodically sight in my hunting rifles, shoot for practice, then clean at the range using a foaming bore cleaner with only patches and 0W-20 motor oil for carbon, then shoot 3-5 rounds to check zero one more time then no cleaning until after hunting. Usually the 1st shot through a clean bore does not group like the rest. I am not a serious rifle barrel cleaner. Exposure to high humidity and salt water does change things -- how fast can steel rust?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2012 at 05:12
Originally posted by RotoReuter_DM RotoReuter_DM wrote:

At the Marine Corps Designated Marksman school we are told to either clean the barrel the same way every day or not at all. My personal instructor told me he had seen better results from students who never cleaned their barrels. I took his advice and was one of the 14 who passed out of 28 who started. We used M14's with green McMillan stocks not ultra accurate weapons but accurate enough. So I only bore snake my rifles once in a blue moon and they shoot well. My 2 cents


I had a Marine Sniper come into our booth at the Shot Show this year and tell me
that he likes to have over 200 shots thru the barrel when he goes do any serious shooting.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2012 at 08:55
I think the misconception about cleaning is actually what you clean. Any semi-auto should be cleaned after a 100rds or so. The Action that is. Especially the smaller cals. 223, 22 and such. I get a lot of cleaning work and though I do a detailed clean of the receiver. Unless the barrel shows issues I will run a dry patch down and thats it unless more is needed. I say this because when guys would ask "How often should I clean?" I would say after 100rds or so, not realizing they interepted that to mean the barrel as well. When you use copper solvents and other solvents you are taking it down to opening the pores again. I learned the hard way that doing that can effect shots up to 10 or 15 rounds before you get back to consistant groups.
Maybe over simplified but when you have people listening to you for advice you have to pay attention to what they are hearing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevey Ducks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 15:40
Thinking back to when I shot Hi Power the usual was 10 shots standing @ 200 slow fire, 10 shots sitting @ 200 rapid fire, 10 shots prone @ 300 rapid fire, and finally 20 shots prone @ 600 slow fire - 56 rounds including sighters except for "alibi's at 200 & 300 rapid fire. My .308 load was the 168 gr. Hornady @ 2500 fps using either H4895 or of all powders H380 (probably a messy carbon producer). I never cleaned (sometimes just with patches and WD40) my barrel except before Wednesday practice sessions where we shot 50 to 100 rounds. Usually my barrel was fired up to 100 rounds before taking that first sighter shot for the match that next Saturday.
 
Now I shoot .204's, and .22-.250's at velocities well over 3600 fps so I clean barrels a more and as needed. Small bores at high velocitys vs. .30 calibers at moderate velocities - do only what it needs.
 
 
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