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Outdoor Life 2010 Optics Test

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snakeman48 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snakeman48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2010 at 03:36
Not much love for Leupold on this sight................Just saying
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sapper524 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2010 at 10:49
Originally posted by snakeman48 snakeman48 wrote:

Not much love for Leupold on this sight................Just saying
I grew up using Leupold, was the only thing my father would use.  A while back I picked up a Leupold VX-7 LR with Varmit reticle for a Varmit rig.  The glass wasn't any better than a Falcon Menace, Its Eye Relief was so/so and it wasn't "Made in the USA" anymore. 
 
This is my opinion of Leupold currently, They are joining the ranks of once great optics makers now selling their Name with cheap Asian parts and quality is modest.  Simmons, Redfield, BSA, Millet, etc.  I now trust in US Optics Big Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Randall45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2010 at 17:26
At least they put Vortex and Alpen on the list.Meopro is a nice scope which got good mention.I wonder how that list would appear if some of the forum members were doing the Test.And the winner is L%$*&#@!!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2010 at 17:49
Most of the issues with Leupold is from VX-III before they brought out the VX-3 last year. Leupold finally upgraded the quality of there glass. Problem is they waited so long before doing it they lost a lot of their following and acquired a unfavorable reputation. They were not the best for several years. It hurt them. Only time will tell if they are willing to learn second best is not the best only competitive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2010 at 03:02

Objective test results should usually be presented separately from subjective opinions.  When the two are intermixed, the results are less useful for obvious reasons.  Your tastes and needs may differ considerably from mine.

You will notice that Burris is not included in this test, and has been missing for a number of years.  I don't blame them.  They received some scathingly unfair reviews in prior years based primarily on subjective opinions. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2010 at 13:14
A review is an evaluation, which generally in the case of rifle scopes, is a study designed to assist an audience in the assessment of the value of an object in as objective a manner as possible.  Everyone carries prejudices of some sort into an evaluation of this sort and a rifle scope's "merit" cannot be completely determined in a sterile, purely objective environment because the criteria required in such an assessment would have no meaning for a general audience.  Faith in the objectivity of the reviewer is key.  If the reviewer carries some bias toward one aspect or another, one product or another, it will surface within the review. 
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2010 at 14:54
Get Your Popcorn Ready
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snakeman48 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snakeman48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2010 at 15:04
I looked on the newsstand for it yesterday. Didn't see any issues with the review mentioned.

What month is it in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2010 at 14:39
No love for Leupold from me, I've broken 2 of the best scopes they ever made, so my money buys other optics: always better, sometimes cheaper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2010 at 14:58
I understand and can agree with the apples vs oranges argument, but I still always find some useful information when reading things like this.  I'm hard pressed to say they do these tests with any kind of bias, as it cannot be proven to me that they do.  I can believe the VX3 earning an A+, as Mule Deer (JB) has done the testing himself and is very, very impressed with the new glass in that model.  I can also believe that the Leupold Kenai spotter has fantastic glass, as the Chinese inarguably do make world class glass today.  I believe I read somewhere the main thing they disliked about the Zeiss riflescope was the illuminated reticle situation.  The only Leupold product I currently own is the GR HD binos, BTW so no bias here.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2010 at 15:18

"No bias" is not possible, given the the circumstances, for anyone.

There is a "pride in ownership" aspect to things that prevents any product owner from complete objectivity.

There are mechanisms by which bias can be eliminated, but most testers choose to avoid those mechanisms BECAUSE they do take bias out.

People are inherently stupid, point them toward a shiny object and they fail to notice the rest of the world around them.

The trick to testing things is to be honest with yourself and about the product.

"No bias" is possible, but people only think they want that.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - June/09/2010 at 19:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2010 at 15:56
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


"No bias" is not possible, given the the circumstances, for anyone.

There is a "pride in ownership" aspect to thigns taht prevents any product owner from complete objectivity.

There are mechanisms by which bias can be eliminated, but most testers choose to avoid those mechanisms BECAUSE they do take bias out.

People are inherently stupid, point them toward a shiny object and they fail to notice the rest of the world around them.

The trick to testing things is to be honest with yourself and about the product.

"No bias" is possible, but people only think they want that.

Whatever.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2010 at 17:25
For argument's sake, let's say the OL tests are entirely objective, with no bias involved whatsoever.  We have no way of knowing for certain, either way.
 
Still, what I absolutely hate about those annual OL equipment "reviews" is they don't give the reader much information at all, so I find them to be almost useless.  They sum up their results with a few scores and a couple of very brief, generalized comments.  I haven't read this particular issue, but in past issues, they gave the reader little or no information on how the scores were arrived at, what specific qualities elevated or subtracted from the product's scores, and how the categories are weighted to arrive at their final results.  Their rankings seem to frequently contradict their scores with no explanation of why.  I don't necessarily think they are letting their biases get in the way of objectivity, I just think they do a crappy job of reviewing products.  I would even be o.k. with all subjective evaluations of product performance, if they would at least explain in detail how they came to their conclusions.  Maybe their approach appeals to a general audience, but not to a gearaholic like me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2010 at 19:11
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

For argument's sake, let's say the OL tests are entirely objective, with no bias involved whatsoever.  We have no way of knowing for certain, either way.
 
Still, what I absolutely hate about those annual OL equipment "reviews" is they don't give the reader much information at all, so I find them to be almost useless.  They sum up their results with a few scores and a couple of very brief, generalized comments.  I haven't read this particular issue, but in past issues, they gave the reader little or no information on how the scores were arrived at, what specific qualities elevated or subtracted from the product's scores, and how the categories are weighted to arrive at their final results.  Their rankings seem to frequently contradict their scores with no explanation of why.  I don't necessarily think they are letting their biases get in the way of objectivity, I just think they do a crappy job of reviewing products.  I would even be o.k. with all subjective evaluations of product performance, if they would at least explain in detail how they came to their conclusions.  Maybe their approach appeals to a general audience, but not to a gearaholic like me.

You'll be pleasantly surprised to find out the criteria for testing, scoring, and methods for the testing this time.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2010 at 19:32
 I sure hope so.  I'm waiting for the mag in the mail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KrazeLegs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2010 at 19:35
Past OL reviews always seem to highly rate Weaver and Pentax optics for some reason.  The Minox products seem to be rated lower than they should be.

I think the Dark Lord of Optics is truly humbled by the OL optical staff and their expertise!!  Just kidding.  OL seems to somehow rate  the products in a without regards to the true   optical quality. 

That said, at least you can get an idea of what is new to the market.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2010 at 19:44
  "at least you can get an idea of what is new to the market."
 
  Yea that's how I look at it to.
 
  I'm really hoping that OL stepped up to the plate with a more hi-tech approach this time.  I've read quite a few of JG's posts over the years and if he's saying we'll be "pleasantly surprised" then I'm looking forward to reading the article.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2010 at 07:07

E, you should have it today.  I would hope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2010 at 07:09
  Excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2010 at 09:14
Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

  "at least you can get an idea of what is new to the market."
 
  Yea that's how I look at it to.
 
  I'm really hoping that OL stepped up to the plate with a more hi-tech approach this time.  I've read quite a few of JG's posts over the years and if he's saying we'll be "pleasantly surprised" then I'm looking forward to reading the article.


At least I was pleasantly surprised to find they spelled out exactly how things were tested and scored. Smile
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