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ceejayex
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/12/2010 Location: Oxford, MI Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Posted: March/15/2010 at 06:46 |
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What does .1 mil mean compared to 1 MOA?
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The Bone Collector
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Quoddy
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/18/2010 Location: NY/VT Border Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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1 Mil is a distance whereas 1 MOA is an angle. For practical purposes at 100 yards a Mil is 3.6 inches and an MOA is 1.047 inches. So .1 Mil = .36 inches at 100 yards and there would be .291 Mils in one MOA.
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.204 Because Speed Kills
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Jon A
Optics Journeyman Joined: March/14/2008 Location: Everett, WA Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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No, both Mils and MOA are angles. There are .291 Mils in one MOA not only at 100 yds, but at all ranges. The numbers are correct though. Assuming the OP is wanting to get a feel for how big .1 Mil clicks are, think of them as "about" 1/3 MOA (.344 to be exact). About 1/2 way between 1/4 and 1/2 MOA clicks.
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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As Jon A. mentioned, Mil. (abbreviation for Milliradian,), is also a unit of angular measurement, (as are Degrees and Minutes of Angle), not a measurement of distance, per se.
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medic52
Optics Professional Joined: October/05/2006 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 893 |
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http://www.mildot.com/ check this out
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doublechaz
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/02/2010 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Perhaps that confusion comes from the way they are typically defined.
Degrees minutes seconds is defined strictly in fractions of angle. 360 degrees in a full rotation, each degree into 60 minutes, each minute into 60 seconds. Whereas a milliradian is usually defined something like the most acute angle in a right triangle whose right angle sides are in the proportion 1/1000, or less precisely as the angle described by the two ends of a unit of length viewed from a distance of 1000 of those units. All the operatives are lengths even though the final result is an angle. At least we aren't dealing with the editor who mangled the book I'm reading right now. He edited most of the angles expressed in x' y" into x feet and y inches of angle. How does someone like that get a job as a final editor? |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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The long and short of it is that .1 mil is about a third of an inch at 100 yds. From there you can get more technical --- 1 mil is 3.6 inches at 100 yds so .1 mil is .36 inches at 100 yds.
As noted milradian and minute of angle are mesurments of an angle that has a starting point at your eye and the two lines diverge growing furthere away from each other as they get farther away from you. Like a piece of pie.
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ceejayex
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/12/2010 Location: Oxford, MI Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Okay, thats a little easier. So... if I have a scope with 1/4 MOA.... with my scope sighted in at 100 yds. To hit dead on at say...250yds, I would raise the elevation... 10 clicks?
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The Bone Collector
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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10 clicks would be 2.5 moa , so if your rifle has that drop in 250 yards the answer is yes. the scope doesn't know what kind of rifle you have, you have to tell it.
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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To answer that accurately, you need MUCH more information! You are free to generalize, but actual results may vary. For a .308 at 2650FPS, 175-gr projectile, at sea level, 70 degrees ambient temp, yea, about 10 clicks, plus or minus a click or 2. The exact dope is rifle/scope specific, there is no "right" answer other than the one that your rifle/scope give. |
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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Dear Scope, I have a Remington LTR in .308. Please take this into account when aiming at the target for me. Sorry, but that was kind of a vague answer for someone new to ballistics. ceejayex, you would need to know what the actual drop is for 250 yards, either through actual shooting or by using a ballistics calculator. If you were to convert that drop (in inches) to MOA, keep in mind that because it is a measurement of angle, the farther out you go, the more inches 1 MOA covers. So if I had a 10" drop @ 250 yards, it would be 3.82 MOA: 10 / (1.047 * 250 / 100). 1 MOA @ 200 yards = 2.094" and @ 250 yards = 2.6175". One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that angular measurements such as mils or MOA really are most useful when you have a matching reticle. Otherwise, they bear little practical relation to shooting and are mostly a pain in the butt. However, if you have a reticle, such as a mil-dot, that has ticks indicating 1/10 mils (and sometimes finer subtensions), you can use that reticle along with mil turrets to make shot corrections using just the angular measurements. For example, if I see that I need to correct 1.7 mils up and .6 mils right, I can either use the reticle gradations to do that or dial in those corrections - without having to make any calculations or conversions. I also never have to think in inches, yards, or meters. |
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Reaction time is a factor...
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ceejayex
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/12/2010 Location: Oxford, MI Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Yes, but considering I know the ballistics of the bullet that I'm shooting, I can just use the "clicks" to adjust i.e. 3in drop at 200yds would indicate 12 clicks up?
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The Bone Collector
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SD Dog
Optics Master Extraordinaire OT Scratching Post Joined: February/28/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4177 |
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CJ at 200 yards, you 1/4" movement per click at 100 yards become 1/2" movement per click at 200 yards. To move 3" at 200 yards would be 6 "clicks". As your range increases, take the movement of 1 click at 100 yards x the number of yards per/100.
IE 1/4" at 100 yards 1/2" at 200 yards 3/4" at 300 yards 1" at 400 yards etc |
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cyborg
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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As has been mentioned by several posters, these are measurements of angle. Think of it this way: each click increases the angle, not some fixed measurement of distance.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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even though radian and moa are angular measure , its faster to think of angular measure drop at the target, in the 308 example above , 500 yds would be about 3 mils or about 10 moa, it really doesn't matter whether the scope system is mixed or not, just dial in ( tell the scope what your doing) using the system thats there. even in a mixed system there really isn't any need to use any conversion from one to the other, so instead of your target being so and so yards out its, so and so moa or mils out.
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ceejayex
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/12/2010 Location: Oxford, MI Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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At this point guys, I am feeling incredibly DENSE in the freaking head. I was thinking of changing over to the mil-dot system ( SS 10x42) , but I may just stick with a bdc system. Unless I can find a Mil-dot for Dummies somewhere! I am a very visual person, so something I can see would help. Thanks for all your replies!
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The Bone Collector
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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Buy a mil dot master, easy as pie.
Whether you think in mils or MOA or clicks, it don't matter: you need to put rounds down range at known distance before you can "know" what adjustment is needed for your rifle and scope. Programs like JBM can get you close, but nothing equals rounds on paper in the real world. Anything less is a good guess - or maybe not so good. |
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rjtfroggy
Optics Journeyman Joined: August/24/2009 Location: WTBY. CT. Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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Mil dot master .com explains the system and sells a downloadable classroom.
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froggy
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