OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Other Optics > Spotting Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - is chromatic aberration a function of cost?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

is chromatic aberration a function of cost?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
onfinal View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: April/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onfinal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: is chromatic aberration a function of cost?
    Posted: February/22/2010 at 17:06
I just bought a Vortex Skyline 20-60x80 non-ED spotter.  Went to the 200 yard range today, sun was in and out so not overly bright, and the chromatic aberration on my Champion VisiShot target was pretty severe. Is c/a a function of the cost ($450 in this case)?  Would it be less or non-existent in a more expensive spotter?
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2010 at 17:12
Yes.

CA is reduced or eliminated with the use of "HD/ED/FL/APO" glass in the objective lenses, which consists of either extra dense, extra low dispersion glass or fluorite lens elements.  This option doesn't come cheap.  
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
onfinal View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: April/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onfinal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2010 at 20:23
RD, thanks.  Not exactly what I wanted to hear but helpful, and leads to a couple more questions:

1.  On average, how expensive do I have to go for an 80mm objective that has little or no CA?

2.  I'm thinking seriously of returning this Vortex Skyline if the seller will take it.  But before I do I want to make sure I have done everything I can to make it work as well as possible.  Is there anything I can do to lessen the CA -- sunshade(s), aiming direction re: sun, time of day, etc. -- or is it always going to be there no matter what in this level scope?

I really appreciate your help with this.  I thought I had researched it pretty well, but obviously not.

onfinal
Back to Top
tpcollins View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: January/12/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 428
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpcollins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2010 at 20:54
Both my Stokes Sandpiper and Bushnell Excursion each had some abberation around the outer edges but it was not as much an issue of degrading the overall view as it was a nusiance and just knowing it was there. 
 
However, my Leupold Gold Ring FLP has no abberation whatsoever - so I assume it does cost money to eliminate abberation.  
Back to Top
Huck BB62 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2010
Location: Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huck BB62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2010 at 21:21
Well, at least it's not brand limited! I bought a non HD Swarovski last week and took it back because of this. The HD version is, well, awesome. 

The Bushnell Excursion FLP 80 that I tried did have some, but not much. I'd consider it a BARGAIN at what they charge for it. If I could've digiscoped with it, I'd have bought it because it's a third the price of my Swarovski!  Is my Swarovski three times as good as the Bushnell? Not even close, but that's the exponential cost rule of optics. One thing that bugged me about the Bushnell is made by the chicoms. That too has a large part to play with how I spend my money.

No sunshade or adjustments will cure the CA. I wish it would. 

Let us know how it turns out.
!!!!!!Joe Arpaio For President!!!!!!
Back to Top
onfinal View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: April/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onfinal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2010 at 22:46
I bought the Bushnell Excursion FLP 80 and returned it because a) it was Chicom, and b) its weight was misrepresented; it was almost 4.5 lbs. out of the box and way too heavy to be carrying very far.

I bought the Vortex Skyline 20-60x80, at ~ $5o more than the Bushnell, because of the high praise for Vortex products I have seen here and elsewhere.  But turns out it too is Chicom, and although considerably lighter than the Bushnell, really comes on strong with the CA.  I didn't have the Bushnell long enough to give it a field test, so I can't compare CA between the two scopes.

I am fast reaching a point of no return here.  Don't really want to go 700-1000$ or more for a spotter I use infrequently, but OTOH have no use for my $400+ doorstop either.  I may just give up and walk down to check my targets at the 220 yard range.  I need the exercise anyway.

Thanks for the comments.
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2010 at 22:56
Originally posted by onfinal onfinal wrote:

RD, thanks.  Not exactly what I wanted to hear but helpful, and leads to a couple more questions:

1.  On average, how expensive do I have to go for an 80mm objective that has little or no CA?

2.  I'm thinking seriously of returning this Vortex Skyline if the seller will take it.  But before I do I want to make sure I have done everything I can to make it work as well as possible.  Is there anything I can do to lessen the CA -- sunshade(s), aiming direction re: sun, time of day, etc. -- or is it always going to be there no matter what in this level scope?

I really appreciate your help with this.  I thought I had researched it pretty well, but obviously not.

onfinal


1.  I don't know on average, but I'm not aware of any really good 80mm scopes with little to no CA for less than $1150 - this being the Pentax 80 ED.
2.  There is nothing you can do; it will always be there.  It is amplified when looking at objects against highly contrasting backgrounds, i.e. objects against a bright sky, etc.
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
Huck BB62 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2010
Location: Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huck BB62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 00:08
Well, it hurts the wallet to buy truly great optics. But, it's very satisfying. Of my core toys, my great optics are my most treasured. Also, they're like cash, really. You won't get 100% return, but it's wayyyyy up there on value retention compared to any other consumer good. You'll appreciate good optics every single time you use them, as long as you own them. 

I'd buy a cheaper rifle before I bought cheap optics. 

I haven't used that Pentax but on the tests, birder forums, and as evidenced here, I'd say it's a bargain comparatively. It also has the fantastic benefit of using traditional 1.25" eyepieces. This is a real boon because there are great eyepieces for a really reasonable price for that use. 

I guess optics is truly one of those things where you're truly going to get what you pay for.  

I'm surprised that the Vortex is chicom given their marketing. I'm sorry to hear that. Some Japanese branded optics are chicom also. It's always worth the look.
!!!!!!Joe Arpaio For President!!!!!!
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 09:05
Originally posted by Huck BB62 Huck BB62 wrote:



I'm surprised that the Vortex is chicom given their marketing. I'm sorry to hear that. Some Japanese branded optics are chicom also. It's always worth the look.


If you are referring to the Vortex Razor HD spotter, it is NOT Chicom; it is made in Japan.  The only Chinese made optics from Vortex are their low end products.  ALL of their top of the line optics are made in Japan, and their second tier stuff is made in the Philippines.
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 09:47
I have the Pentax and like it very, very much, money very well spent. I've compared it to much, much more expensive scopes - some are a little better, none are dramatically better.

You will be spending more than $1000 to get rid of the CA, that's how it is. 


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - February/24/2010 at 09:47
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
onfinal View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: April/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onfinal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 10:35
Thanks for all the comments....lesson learned.  There's no such thing as too much research for truly good optics.

Just to keep the record straight, I'm talking about a Vortex Skyline 80 here, not a Razor HD.  The Chicom part is my own fault for not checking it more carefully.  I thought Vortex name plus three times what the "cheapies" cost, it's got to be good, right?  My mistake.  It will be going back, and the search continues.


Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 10:57
No mistake, just understand, you get what you pay for.

If someone made a $500 spotter that competed well with the $3000 German spotters, that'd be too easy.  Life ain't ever that easy!
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
Scott_at_Vortex View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: February/18/2010
Location: Middleton,WI
Status: Offline
Points: 103
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott_at_Vortex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 11:36
Originally posted by onfinal onfinal wrote:

Thanks for all the comments....lesson learned.  There's no such thing as too much research for truly good optics.

Just to keep the record straight, I'm talking about a Vortex Skyline 80 here, not a Razor HD.  The Chicom part is my own fault for not checking it more carefully.  I thought Vortex name plus three times what the "cheapies" cost, it's got to be good, right?  My mistake.  It will be going back, and the search continues.


I am sorry to hear that you are not happy with it. Contact us as soon as you can and we will do whatever we need to do to make you happy.
 
Scott
1-800-426-0048  ext 323
www.vortextactical.com

www.vortexoptics.com
Back to Top
JGRaider View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: February/06/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1540
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 11:36
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

No mistake, just understand, you get what you pay for.

If someone made a $500 spotter that competed well with the $3000 German spotters, that'd be too easy.  Life ain't ever that easy!


You're right about that Rancid, although I feel the euro alpha stuff is grossly overpriced.  That includes spotters, binos, and premium scopes. 
Back to Top
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 11:37
Gotta love venders who support the OT.
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 11:43
Everything is a trade-off: spend less, give up some resolution and clarity.

"Grossly over priced" is a subjective term, I run a Pentax 80 ED spotter next to a Hensoldt 3-12x56 scope, the spotter does what it needs to do so the rifle scope can do what it needs to do. 

Everything is a trade-off.


Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
lucznik View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: November/27/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucznik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 11:51
Originally posted by tpcollins tpcollins wrote:

my Leupold Gold Ring FLP has no abberation whatsoever - so I assume it does cost money to eliminate abberation.  


Your assumption is correct, though not necessarily for the reason you have stated.  One of the primary reasons why the FLP-type scopes will show little-to-no CA is due to the use of mirrors rather than prisms in their design. This is also true of CAT scopes.

 
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
Back to Top
JGRaider View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: February/06/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1540
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 12:03
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Everything is a trade-off: spend less, give up some resolution and clarity.

"Grossly over priced" is a subjective term, I run a Pentax 80 ED spotter next to a Hensoldt 3-12x56 scope, the spotter does what it needs to do so the rifle scope can do what it needs to do. 

Everything is a trade-off.




For the most part the trade off you describe is true.  However when I compared my Nikon 82ED to my neighbor's Zeiss 85 Fl T there was no difference optically.  Several aoudad and mule deer hunts with him have only reinforced our findings.  In fact, the Nikon is usable under the right conditions at 75x, and the Zeiss obviously cannot do that.   The Fieldscope for $1100, or the Zeiss for $2000? 
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 12:30
Everyone's eye differ.  And experiences.

I don't buy big-names for the name, I buy what I buy for the product and the task at hand.
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
Huck BB62 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2010
Location: Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huck BB62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 21:20
I unfortunately did not get to try the Vortex. I'd like to have, but got a good deal on my Swarovski. I wanted top notch, period. Counting brow tines and other crucial activities with a scope are what it's all about. After I've dedicated who knows how much money and time on an expensive hunt, great optics just don't seem so expensive. 

If you can get a Nikon Fieldscope for $1100 or a Zeiss for $2000, that's a heck of a deal, neither one of those fine scopes should be a disappointment!
!!!!!!Joe Arpaio For President!!!!!!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.523 seconds.