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Sighting in a new scope |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I do not particularly like bore sighters, so I seldom use them. Sometimes, I do the same thing that RC does and just look through the bore to get a rough idea of where the scope is pointing.
Generally speaking, this is one of the quick tests of a the scope adjustments, that I do. First, I go ahead and set up two targets: one at 25 yards and another at 100 yards: I fire one shot at 25 yards and see where the impact is. Then I use the knobs to change POA so that it is as close to dead-on as possible horizontaly and 3-4 inches low vertically. The second shot I fire at a 100 yard target. Then I use the knobs to adjust the reticle so that it is exactly where I want the 100 yard zero to be. The third shot I expect to be exactly where I intended. If I can not achieve an exact zero at 100 yards in three shots, that means that the knobs on this particular scope require more of my attention. Of course this assumes an accurate rifle. In my case since I test scopes largely on the same three or four rifles that I am comfortable with and know to be accurate, this works fine. ILya
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Difficult to look through the bore and boresight a semi-auto... especially if there is lead in the receiver...
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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John Barsness
Optics Optimist Joined: January/27/2009 Status: Offline Points: 785 |
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The better collimators are adjustable, so that after you actually sight-in a rifle you can also adjust the collimator so its precisely on--at least with that rifle. But due to different barrels, cartridges, etc. no collimator will have a rifle shooting within a few inches of point-of-aim at 100 yards, all the time.
As several people have already mentioned, generally real bore-sighting (looking through the bore itself, then adjusting the scope to the same place) is even more accurate than the average collimator--partly because most collimators aren't adjusted, or evne adjustable.
However, not all rifles allow bore-sighting, lever-action being a prime example. And collimators are useful tools for some scope tests. Both are reasons that I've owned at least one collimator for a period of over 30 years.
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M7025-06
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/21/2010 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 271 |
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Like I said...I'm done buying scopes for a while, but I think I'll try removing the bolt next time. I think I should be closer than 4'' low and 4'' left @ 25 yards, after using my mechanical bore sight (unless I have the scope pre-bore sighted).
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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you would be surprised how well it works. i dont even mess around with 25 yards, i put my rifle on my lead sled and take the bolt out and use the elevation of the sled to get the bore lined up with my target @ 100 yards ( i use the smallest target spots i have which are like 1" diam.) then look through the scope and adjust the scope till the cross hairs are where you want them and let her rip. like i said if you cant get into the bull within 3 shoots something aint right.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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John Barsness
Optics Optimist Joined: January/27/2009 Status: Offline Points: 785 |
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Many years ago I loaned my father-in-law a Remington 700 .270 for a deer hunt, because his own rifle had a problem and was at the gunsmith's. I hadn't shot the .270 for a while, so bore-sighted it on the tip of my neighbor's roof across the street. I told him he should shoot it to make sure it was "on," and he went hunting.
He came back in the evening with a decent whitetail buck, which he'd killed with one shot right behind the shoulder at about 150 yards. And no, he never took a shot beforehand....
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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my dad did that once with a 30-06 only he was hunting black bear. same ending though. i call it luck
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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I am not sure it is true you should have better results than that, a lot depends on how well you align your boresighter/collimator prior to boresighting, what the potential of the collimator is to begin with, and sight picture. I've had better results and worse results, mostly depends on how much care I take. Many of the mechanicals are difficult to seat "just right" and there is some "work" that has to be done there. It takes me about 4 times as long to make sure the collimator is properly positioned as it does to perform the boresight. Then, some collimators just are not that accurate. The general philosophy is to just "get it on paper" at 100 yards. There are some precision collimators that work very well, and, just like rifle scopes, there are some inexpensive ones that work well, too. There are some that make better paperweights. There are a number of possible misalignments that can occur in setup that can reduce accuracy, and once again... sight picture. Whether I use a laser, mechanical collimator, or "sight down the barrel" depends on circumstances and rifle. I believe a very accurate boresight can be accomplished by sighting down the bore, use that method quite a bit and often "double check" any other boresight just to make sure, but a good laser boresight system beats them all, IF the setup is correct. Tight beam laser device fitted such that there are no reflections off the bore, powerful enough to reach 100 yards, will give a boresight that is very near zero. The lasers that use a set of arbors in the end of the barrel are only slightly better than a collimator using arbors (and CAN be much worse) and depends HEAVILY upon the care taken in setup. All that said, I have never boresighted without zeroing if I intended to hunt. I'm not lucky enough for that.
Edited by Kickboxer - February/05/2010 at 19:02 |
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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John Barsness
Optics Optimist Joined: January/27/2009 Status: Offline Points: 785 |
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pyro,
I just shook my head. It was far more than luck--because I'd seen him shoot before. He normally couldn't hit a deer at 150 yards with less than 3-4 shots.
I suspect it was just that buck's day to die.
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M7025-06
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/21/2010 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 271 |
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I am not sure it is true you should have better results than that, a lot depends on how well you align your boresighter/collimator prior to boresighting, what the potential of the collimator is to begin with, and sight picture. I've had better results and worse results, mostly depends on how much care I take. Many of the mechanicals are difficult to seat "just right" and there is some "work" that has to be done there. It takes me about 4 times as long to make sure the collimator is properly positioned as it does to perform the boresight. Then, some collimators just are not that accurate. The general philosophy is to just "get it on paper" at 100 yards. There are some precision collimators that work very well, and, just like rifle scopes, there are some inexpensive ones that work well, too. There are some that make better paperweights. There are a number of possible misalignments that can occur in setup that can reduce accuracy, and once again... sight picture.
Whether I use a laser, mechanical collimator, or "sight down the barrel" depends on circumstances and rifle. I believe a very accurate boresight can be accomplished by sighting down the bore, use that method quite a bit and often "double check" any other boresight just to make sure, but a good laser boresight system beats them all, IF the setup is correct. Tight beam laser device fitted such that there are no reflections off the bore, powerful enough to reach 100 yards, will give a boresight that is very near zero. The lasers that use a set of arbors in the end of the barrel are only slightly better than a collimator using arbors (and CAN be much worse) and depends HEAVILY upon the care taken in setup.
All that said, I have never boresighted without zeroing if I intended to hunt. I'm not lucky enough for that. [/QUOTE]
Im pretty sure its the bore sight I'm using. I think I had the same problem with my other 2 rifles using the same bore sight, which was given to me by my dad (thats probably why he was so quick to give it away). There's no way I would ever have a rifle not sighted in exactly where I want it before heading out to hunt...in fact sighting in a rifle is half fun for me. I'd shoot everyday if I had the time.
The day before rifle season opens here in Nebraska...me, my dad, and 4-5 of our buddies go out to the pasture and shoot jugs at 300-400 yards for the hell of it. It usually turns into a contest between me and dad...it's a good time.
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i was refering to my dad (who's name also is john) when i was talking about it being lucky. he told me it was the dumbest thing he had ever done. he bought a new win 670 in 30-06 put a leupold m8-6x on it and then boresighted the scope to a lightbulb in the living room of our house. never shot a round one out of it and took off the next morning to chase bears. he said when the first shot broke he was shaking and the bear kept coming. |
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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Jeremy - what part of Nebraska are you in?
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take em!
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M7025-06
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/21/2010 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 271 |
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Tip...I live in Omaha but grew up on a farm in the south-central part of the state (south of Lexington). Where are you at?
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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he is in omaha
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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gun74
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/10/2009 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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this is the method that I have started using switched scopes on one of my rifles a week before hunting season started,went out to the range and the first shot was two inches low.I only needed to shoot five rounds to get sighted in. |
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gun74
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/10/2009 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 50 |
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take the bolt out and put the rifle in a steady rest and place a target at a hundred yards then look down the bore of the rifle at the target and without disturbing the rifle move your crosshairs until they are on the same point.It may take a little longer than using a boresighter but you save ammo and can spend more time fine tuning your scope.
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neilbilly
Optics Master Joined: February/07/2010 Location: Sweeny TX Status: Offline Points: 999 |
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I bought one of the cheaper bore sighters from academy. Mine you tape a reflective target to the wall at 20 feet and there are different circles on the target. The cross hairs go on one circle, the dot in another. 3 circles at different heights for different calibers. Doing this I haven't been more than a couple of inches from center at 100 yards with anything I've sighted in and haven't had to shoot more than 5 shells to dial it in. "provided I do my part"
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If God didn't want me to play with it, he'd of made my arms shorter.
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