Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials. |
Help me justify buying a new scope!!!! |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||||||||||||||||||||
CodyBrown
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/16/2008 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: November/28/2009 at 17:16 |
|||||||||||||||||||
So I currently have a Leupold 6.5-20x40 LR scope with a fine duplex on a 22-250. Someone offered me a 8.5-25x50 LR with the varmint hunters recticle for a hell of a deal. I really wanted the varmint hunters recticle when I bought the original scope, but the store was sold out, and I needed the scope for a last minute hunt. The 8.5-25 is a little overkill in my opinion, but I don't have to use the higher power if I don't need it. Most the time it stays at 10-12x as is, but it would be nice to be able to crank it up for long range paper shooting if I wanted to, and I would really like to have the varmint hunters recticle. I looked it up, and it retails at about $1100, and the guy wants $500 for it, and it could pass as new. It was mounted on a safe queen, and supposedly he never even shot with it. So what say you? I'm pretty sure my decision is already made, but I need a little push over the edge. BTW I paid $580 for my current 6.5-20....
|
||||||||||||||||||||
Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
the varmit reticle (usable) will not be calibrated correctly at any lower power, if you attempt to use it's hold over reticle around 10-12x your shots will be around 10 moa high.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
trigger29
Optics Master Extraordinaire X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ? Joined: September/29/2007 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 4353 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
I don't think that's the push he was looking for Dale.......however, as usual, you are absolutely correct. With the mag. turned down a second focal plane reticle will not be calibrated for your bullet drop. May save him from making a mistake. Good to know these things up front.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
||||||||||||||||||||
CodyBrown
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/16/2008 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Can you clarify that a little for me? |
||||||||||||||||||||
trigger29
Optics Master Extraordinaire X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ? Joined: September/29/2007 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 4353 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
The reticle in that scope is in the second image plane. What this means is that as you turn up the magnification ring, the target that you are trying to shoot will be magnified, but the reticle will stay the same size. The reticle is not magnified by the scope, and will always remain the same size. If one of the marks appears to subtend 3 moa down from the main crosshairs at 20x, if you dial back to 10x and aim with the same mark you will be holding over 6 moa instead. If you hold your crosshair on a target, and look how far down it is to the first mark down, and turn up the magnification, the marks will appear to move closer together on the target. I hope some of this makes sense. It's hard to explain without seeing it.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
||||||||||||||||||||
CodyBrown
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/16/2008 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
So how is that supposed to be an improvement on a scope recticle? There must be a trick to it, or Leupold wouldn't have made it. Kinda defeats the purpose of using holdover marks doesn't it?
|
||||||||||||||||||||
trigger29
Optics Master Extraordinaire X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ? Joined: September/29/2007 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 4353 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
You just have to know what power to have the scope on to make the marks hit at the yardage you want to, or know where the marks will hit at the magnification you want to run the scope at. It's not a perfect system, but I've used my Rapid-Z reticle to make some shots that I doubt I'd have made without some kind of reference. No matter what you do, there is no magical long range optic that makes long range shooting a breeze. You still have to learn the system.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
||||||||||||||||||||
Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
There is a solution but first focal plane scopes are usually expensive. With FFP the reticle appear to change size as you change the magnification. The mil dots or mil marks can be used for hold over at any power (same same).
Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - November/28/2009 at 21:11 |
||||||||||||||||||||
"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
||||||||||||||||||||
Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
The reason people wind up not entirely happy with high power balistic reticles is that they dial the power down to stalk game or when the sun goes down to brighten up the scope and they wind up shooting over the game because the center X is all that holds true at lower than max magnification. With tactical knobs you dial in correction and its good at any power. Leupold CDS Custom dial system scopes are a hunting version with knobs custom engraved to match the rifle caliber and ammo you use. Put it on 2 for 200 yds or put it on 4 for 400 yds hold dead on and you are on target.
Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - November/28/2009 at 21:12 |
||||||||||||||||||||
"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
||||||||||||||||||||
CodyBrown
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/16/2008 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
So if I'm holding my crosshair at one notch below center at 100 yards at 10x, the change would become 2 times greater at 20x? Is that kinda how it works? I've only used standard rifle scopes before, so the whole ballistic notching is a new concept to me. Basically I would need to shoot the rifle at different ranges at different magnifications to learn the charistics of the scope and become familiar with it.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
CodyBrown
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/16/2008 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
So does the center of the recticle stay correct at all magnifications at all ranges with second focal plane scopes?
|
||||||||||||||||||||
trigger29
Optics Master Extraordinaire X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ? Joined: September/29/2007 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 4353 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
The center of the reticle shouldn't move. If you dialed back the magnification for shorter shots, and only used the main crosshair, you would be fine. Just don't expect the holdover marks to be accurate at more than one power.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
||||||||||||||||||||
billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Yes. At least on most scopes, anyway!
|
||||||||||||||||||||
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
|
||||||||||||||||||||
CodyBrown
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/16/2008 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Ok, so technically all that I would be able to use reliably at all powers would be the normal crosshair and the windage marks then.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Windage marks are going to change with magnification also in a SFP scope. Basically, only the center cross hair stays the same. In a first focal plane scope all reticle marks "move" with magnification, thus allowing the hold-offs to stay the same.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
|
||||||||||||||||||||
CodyBrown
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/16/2008 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Well damn.....the only advantage I see is that it would give me 5x more magnification and a 10mm larger objective then, unless I just left it on one power setting......I"m kinda glad I got the fine duplex on my 6.5-20
|
||||||||||||||||||||
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Cody, that's a good deal on the scope, and I'd recommend you buy it if the magnification range would be useful for your application. The V.H. reticle is still a good, simple reticle, despite the limitations of it being in the second focal plane. Just learn where your point of impact is at a couple different powers and turn the magnification to those powers when using the reticle for drop and windage compensation. As Trigger stated, no reticle system is perfect, and no reticle will be perfectly calibrated to your rifle and load anyway, regardless of whether it's in first or second focal plane. First focal scopes just eliminate magnification setting as a consideration when ranging or using holdover. The V.H. reticle is very useful for long range varmint sniping once you learn how to use it, which you'd have to do with any ballistic multi-point reticle anyway. There is no easy, magic reticle that makes long range shooting a breeze without involving a lot of practice.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
||||||||||||||||||||
CodyBrown
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/16/2008 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 36 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
Well I've thought it over, and I'm going to buy the scope. I'll take the 6.5-20 off and mount it on the new 30-06 I'm getting I think. Thank you all for your help. I know it will take a little getting used to and practice, but it seems like a good scope once you're familiar with it. I will just use the center crosshair until I'm comfortable using the windage and elevation markings.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
Steelbenz
Optics Jedi Knight ROLL TIDE ROLL Joined: January/03/2006 Location: Heart of Dixie Status: Offline Points: 5153 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
There you go, you knew you were going to buy it anyway. Ted, you my brother are a smooth takin' devil!!!
|
||||||||||||||||||||
"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"
|
||||||||||||||||||||
Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||
You OBVIOUSLY forgot about Huskemaw and CounterSniper...
|
||||||||||||||||||||
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
||||||||||||||||||||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |