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Grouping of "good load" vs "bad load"
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pyro6999 View Drop Down
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Mr. Anti .270

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Posts: 13051 		  Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Grouping of "good load" vs "bad load"
    Posted: November/03/2009 at 20:17
the load matters to a certain extent. some custom rifles will shoot everything you feed them pretty well. problem is that it will only shoot a load or two exceptionally well. imo the better the quality of the barrel the better it will shoot whatever you feed it. now, you must recognize that you have to match the twist up with the proper weights to make it work.
   the load i use in my 6.5rem mag is the nosler books fastest load for the 130gr accubond, and it is certainly not the most accurate load they cited, the same went for the load i used with 120gr tsx's, the fastest load in the book was the one. you move to my .264 and it hated pretty much everything i fed it. then i bought some h-1000 and things started to change, and now i use a middle of the road weight charge for it. my .300win mag really liked a bunch of imr 4831, where my .300wsm was more of a middle of the road. my dads 30-06 likes 58gr of imr 4831, my 30-06 wouldnt shoot that load into a 6" plate @100, but i load up 50.5 gr of imr 4064 and i have a beautiful 1" group every time. in other words you simply cannot predict what will work and what wont, you just gotta try it.
now i know why i bought a .375H&H!!
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Posts: 561 		  Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 20:23
I've never wanted to test too many powders and haven't had to. Basically, I start out by looking for the powders that produce the highest velocities for the bullet weight/type and cartridge that I'm using and just load test with those. Like Dale says most loads do not obtain the best accuracy at the highest pressures so I know choosing these powders I have room to back off.

Re: loads that shoot good at 100 yards but not out at longer distances. I haven't experienced this. But maybe that's because all my loads are with high BC boat tails. If a load shoots well at 300 yards it shoots well at 100 yards. Same applies in reverse. I also zero at 100 yards because there's less variation from wind and you can see the target better. If you plan to shoot at long distances, once you have that zero in you can check to your real world results out as far as you can shoot against a ballistics program like JBM.
Clean what's dirty, tighten what's loose, oil what turns and keep all the pieces. - Lyndel Meikle
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Posts: 3920 		  Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 21:22
most loading information in published sources are based upon guys who "might" shoot a 1000 rds thru their guns in the course of the ownership of the gun. This amounts to a relatively small amount of powder. So the powder companies go to a great deal of trouble making sure that canister powders are can to can as uniform as they companies can make them. I've gotten exceptionally accuracy from military surplus powders, bought in bulk, 50 lbs at a time in some cases , and adjust everything according to that lot of powder and primers. Variations in lots even in canister powders purchased one at a time over a long period of time can show quite a spread. Personally I have no idea why reloading books put in most accurate load-- I don't have any idea what it means.
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pyro6999 View Drop Down
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Mr. Anti .270

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Posts: 13051 		  Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 21:24
Originally posted by Dale Clifford

most loading information in published sources are based upon guys who "might" shoot a 1000 rds thru their guns in the course of the ownership of the gun. This amounts to a relatively small amount of powder. So the powder companies go to a great deal of trouble making sure that canister powders are can to can as uniform as they companies can make them. I've gotten exceptionally accuracy from military surplus powders, bought in bulk, 50 lbs at a time in some cases , and adjust everything according to that lot of powder and primers. Variations in lots even in canister powders purchased one at a time over a long period of time can show quite a spread. Personally I have no idea why reloading books put in most accurate load-- I don't have any idea what it means.


all very good points and all are very true.
now i know why i bought a .375H&H!!
.270win sucks
343 we will never forget
God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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JF4545 View Drop Down
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Posts: 627 		  Quote JF4545 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 22:45
Yes, Very good information GuysExcellentIm glad I asked those questions. I used to think it was always me, my shooting. Which Im sure is true to a point, but just as often its the load and if the rifle likes it or not it seems...My sons Mod 70 Winchester 7mm Mag. is not picky but all my rifles seem to be pretty fussy...
Ive learned so much from this forum, its great....
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Posts: 3920 		  Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 09:36
after shooting and reloading for a while -- you will gain an intuition, why and how to adjust for the variations you are seeing. Sometimes one can put together a load and a gun and this bad feeling develops-- are you willing to put the cost of load development or just walk away. Having done this with literally hundreds of guns, I would say that 95% of most problems is the stock.
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JF4545 View Drop Down
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Posts: 627 		  Quote JF4545 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 10:40
Dale,
Do you mean the way the rifle fits into the stock? or the overall design of the stock and how it fits you? Can you be more specific please?
 
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Longhunter View Drop Down
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Posts: 263 		  Quote Longhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 16:19
Originally posted by robbie

My question is how much difference does the load make? 

Lets say the perfect load will produce groups the size of a quarter, or a 1" pattern.  How bad could a non-favorable load be?  Would it shoot a 1.5" group?  2"?  5"? 
 
 
The answer is that the load can make a LOT of difference.  For example, my first big game rifle was a Remington 742 in .30-06.  Shooting Remington factory loads (150 grain) it shot 4 to 4 1/2 inch groups.
 
I bought a little Lee Loader, and went to work.  After one or two tries, I had a load that punched out consistent 1 1/2 inch groups using the brass from the factory loads!
 
Happily, factory loads have become more accurate since then.
 
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RifleDude View Drop Down
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Posts: 6108 		  Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 18:12
Originally posted by robbie

Lets say the perfect load will produce groups the size of a quarter, or a 1" pattern.  How bad could a non-favorable load be?  Would it shoot a 1.5" group?  2"?  5"? 
 
Thanks
 


There is no "rule of thumb" here.  There are too many variables involved.  If you are shooting a bullet that is totally incompatible with your barrel twist, for example, groups can open up to shotgun patterns. 
Ted

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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Posts: 3920 		  Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 21:42

here too, autoloaders have their own quirks, that may or may not work. In regards to the stock, its difficult for a company to place a barreled action in a stock so that it is just so. As an example a loose stock or even one torqued in too much can cause as many problems in working up a good load as the variables of powder and bullet. The orginal post, and in reading it, one assumes that these variables are have been taken care of so that the load work is the only remaing problem. This is rarely the case, sometimes the stock has too much flex in the forend, or is too soft and the action is torquing in the stock.

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