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Grouping of "good load" vs "bad load"
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robbie View Drop Down
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Posts: 49 		  Quote robbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Grouping of "good load" vs "bad load"
    Posted: October/18/2009 at 00:45

I know that certain guns like certain loads to produce best accuracy.  I believe that most would even say that each particular gun (even between guns of the same make, model, and caliber) can have a different load that it likes.

My question is how much difference does the load make? 
 
Lets say the perfect load will produce groups the size of a quarter, or a 1" pattern.  How bad could a non-favorable load be?  Would it shoot a 1.5" group?  2"?  5"? 
 
Thanks
 
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Posts: 3920 		  Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2009 at 08:13
guns and loads produce cones of fire -- a 3 dimension radial dispersion. a worn NFA barrel can go to 5" in the cone of fire. It depends on the shooters need, a cone of fire of 1" would not work for a target shooter, but be fine for hunting, 2" would not work for hunting (as an example) but works great on NFA Ak-47's
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lucytuma View Drop Down
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Posts: 2448 		  Quote lucytuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2009 at 08:17

I've had/seen rifles that are capable of MOA, that with the wrong load open up to the 4"-8" range.  Though most rifles I have will group almost any load to 3".  I've had two extremely finicky rifles, one a Ruger MKII in 7mm and the other a Remington 700 in 300RUM.  The Ruger I never did figure out so I got ride of it. The Ultra Mag (a friends gun) we finally figured out and got a respectable load which groups about 1.5".
Yes Dear!
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Terry Lamb View Drop Down
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Posts: 75 		  Quote Terry Lamb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/20/2009 at 14:06
I took a peak at my range log book, as an example of pattern changing with load. In my old 03-A3 30-06, with the 165-gr Hornady SST, 100yds, results were:
       48.5 grs H4895    2.4 inch
       49.0        "            1.8
       50.0        "            1.7
       50.5        "            1.5
       51.0        "            0.8
       51.5        "            1.9      Some pressure indications on cases
       52.0        "            2.8      Pronounced hi pressure indication
 
The loads above and below the 51.0 grains were subsequently confirmed with additional range sessions and repeated similar results. In this rifle, with this bullet, there was clearly a "sweet spot" in its preferred load.
    
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robbie View Drop Down
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Posts: 49 		  Quote robbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2009 at 23:20
Thanks, Terry - Thats what I was looking for.
Soooooooo   -    If one is shooting 3-4 inch groups (at 100 yds), don't blame the load or waste time looking for a better load.  Guess that leaves scope, mount, or personal error.
Thanks
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Posts: 1955 		  Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 14:59
Originally posted by robbie

Thanks, Terry - Thats what I was looking for.
Soooooooo   -    If one is shooting 3-4 inch groups (at 100 yds), don't blame the load or waste time looking for a better load.  Guess that leaves scope, mount, or personal error.
Thanks
I wouldn't neccisarily believe that either..... I had a rifle shooting 2.5-3" pretty consistantly. I changed powders, and now it shoots the good loads to less than a 1/2". The bad loads with the same powder go to 1"-1.5". I would consider trying at least changing one thing in the loading, and see what happens. Maybe that gun hates that bullet, or powder. I'm no reloading expert, but have seen this happen.

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Posts: 627 		  Quote JF4545 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 15:34
If you were to look in a Reloading Manual and it tells you the most accurate powder for the particular grain of bullet you want to load. What is that really telling you? Does it mean thats what they found for the rifle that THEY tested? Certainly they are not saying that is the most accurate powder/bullet combo on that page for all rifles of that particular caliber, right?
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Posts: 3920 		  Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 15:53
almost all of them are just saying that max. accuracy never comes at the max of pressure (and thus velocity). because so many avenues can give results, there is obviously no deterministic solution, if there were , every one would be doing it.
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Posts: 627 		  Quote JF4545 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 16:12
I do not understand what you mean Dale.. Lets go to my Barnes book as an example, lets say its says for a 7mm 150gr TTSX BT for the "MOST ACCURATE LOAD" use IMR 4831.. That must mean they tested all those powders on that page (maybe 15 of em) with the TTSX 150gr. bullet.. The IMR 4831 was the most accurate it says....So why would you bother trying the RL 19 or RL 22 or whatever other powder there is on the page?
 
Keep in mind I made all that up, I cannot remember what powders were tested..
 
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Trays 7940 View Drop Down
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Posts: 744 		  Quote Trays 7940 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 17:38
Originally posted by JF4545

If you were to look in a Reloading Manual and it tells you the most accurate powder for the particular grain of bullet you want to load. What is that really telling you? Does it mean thats what they found for the rifle that THEY tested? Certainly they are not saying that is the most accurate powder/bullet combo on that page for all rifles of that particular caliber, right?
I have found that the "most accurate" load is not always the most accurate in my rifles.
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JF4545 View Drop Down
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Posts: 627 		  Quote JF4545 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 19:18
Thanks Trays!
 
Thats all I wanted to know, otherwise I might be searching all over the country looking for that magic powder that is on page whatever which suggests its the Most Accurate. Only then to find out that its not the most accurate for my rifle. Im not sure about anywhere else but I cannot find just any powder I want around the area I live...
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Posts: 123 		  Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 19:30

Also;

 
Loads that shoot good at 100 yards don't always shhot good as the distance increases. 
 
Just a thought...
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