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Razor Range Day

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danjojoUSMC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danjojoUSMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2009 at 17:21
http://swfa.com/Vortex-8x25-Solo-Monocular-P10879.aspx
 
This monocular is actually pretty good and only $49...not the best optical quality obviously but enough that I can see a cat at 80 yards during night time.  It's only 5.6 ounces and 378ft. FOV.  Always have it in my car with me because it fits anywhere. 
 
The optics are about the same as most $150-$200 binoculars.  Tested it to see if it really is rugged and waterproof too and it is Smile
 
 
"When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be"



"Every part of life comes into focus just as you are about to pull the trigger."
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Idaho Scot View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Idaho Scot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 18:18
Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

 

Image quality is clear and crisp, and field of view at 20x  while a bit limited is fine, because we’re using 10 and 15x to find targets, and 20x to bisect the center, and that’s what we’re concentrating on, the center of the reticle.  In this case, that 1/th mil gap glows red as we align our rifle with the clay bird. 

How is the reticle on the low power setting as far as being usable.  With that large of a magnification range is the reticle too small for use on the low end?
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Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 18:43
Idaho,
Actually it's very user friendly at the low settings.  I had no problems with alignment or visibility at the lowest setting.
 
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338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2009 at 13:30
Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

Pretty easy.  It's near deaf so you can sneak up on it without much effort.
 
Seriously though, you mount it just forward of where your current optic might sit.
Eye relief is generous, and there's no change in the sweet spot with increase/decrease in magnification.  At 20x head position is only slightly more critical than at 10x, but not a distraction or inconvenience.
Can you clarify this...
 
I have heard horrible things about this scope at 16x 18x 20x that it does not work for situational awareness due to poor or just plan unforgiving eye relief.  It sounds very contradictory to what you write about...
 
 
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Sparky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2009 at 17:55
Tagged for interest.

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Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2009 at 18:49
338,
I'll be the 1st to admit the targets were not returning fire so my situational needs are diminished compared to yours.
 
Having said that, let's look at how the scope might be used.
At low power FOV is wide enough to give good viewing of area forward of the shooter, and with  near edge to edge clarity 99% of the entire sight picture is fully usable.
So we can use the lower powers,like 5x, to scan the area and pick up things of interest to use.  If those things appear real interesting we can step up to 10x for closer exam and have a perfectly servicable 100 yard sighting device while still maintaining excellent forward visual coverage.
 
Now if we have a partially concealed target we can identify (5X) verify (10X) and validate (15X) as weather conditions allow.  With the target confirmed we can concentrate on our final point of aim at 15, 18,20X magnification.  At this time we are no longer in scan or search mode so wide FOV is not a requirement.  We're going to finalize aim, fire, recycle and if need be, drop the magnification and resume where we started.
 
As to eye relief, it is usable at longer eye to ocular distances than most other scopes you might have experience with.  You're right that I should have been more clear in this regard.
I said to set it forward because I want to be at eather the close or far end of the fully usable eye relief, always found that's the best and most consistant result for me.
Head position change for me was about 1/4 inch from 5x to 20x.  Recoil moves me more than that.
 
At higher magnifications, you're either on the scope or not, which I view as a very good situation.  Following the basic, practiced fundamentals of natural point of aim and attendant head position really does make this a non-issue.  I mention it so as to be clear, it is possible to mount the rifle so poorly that there is no usable sight picture.  It's a training issue, not a scope fault.   Again, I view this as a plus, as you know that you have a sight picture, and that you're in the correct head position to take the shot without skewing the sight picture.  When mounted on my rifle, I could set the scope to 20x, sling the rifle, and go to prone, aquiring my target and a shootable sight picture with no effort.  Again, training issue, not product quality issue.  Is this a doorkickers optic? Not by any stretch of the imagination.  It is a high end, very long range, low light quality sighting tool.
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0311GRUNT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 0311GRUNT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2009 at 21:15
shew.......what a response.....your oratory skills as well as knowledge of glass seems quite keen mike.
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You cant hit what you cant see
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338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2009 at 22:00

The person who I had consulted with this is a very well trained individual he said that compared to his other scopes it was unforgiving to say the least which again sounds like a direct contradiction.  So I will ask the even simpilar compared to the S&B PMII 5-25x56 at full 25x you believe that the Vortex is better...  If so I am sold and will be tickled to say the least. I am told you should know so I sure hope the Vortex will put money in my already broke pockets and then I have a few scopes to trade in at that...

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Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2009 at 07:29
You're asking for an answer I can't honestly provide.
I have prone range time behind the S&B, in the order of a couple dozen rounds.  That's enough to be impressed with the scope but not enough to give a real, honest head to head eval.  I'd love to do a weekend side by side with these and see  how things stack up.
You have to admit, the german optic is pretty hot stuff.  Way over priced but hot none the less.  From what I saw, you can be a few degrees off true center with the S&B and still have a sight picture.  That few degrees is a skewed down range impact in most cases.
Sometimes forgiveness isn't always what it's cracked up to be.
 
The Vortex, as mentioned at 20x is on or off.  I'm really Ok with that, espessially when you take the reticle design into account.  With the open center area ( about 3 inches at 1000 yards ) the eye is drawn to the center of the reticle, and focuses more presicely on the target to be aquired, at least it does for me.
One other factor that might cause a difference in evaluation.  My rifles are fully adjustable in the field for LOP and cheek height, so when I get on the rifle, it's just right each and every time.  To me, if you have a rifle that does not do this then you've started the evaluation of any piece of the total product package at a disadvantage.  If it does not fit, it does not shoot to potential in my opinion.
If you have doubts, I'd encourage you to spend the money where you feel you will get the most for it.  I have no dog in this race,  and really don't get paid to sell these products, but I'm willing to put my name on the evals when I do them. 
Hope that helps at least to some degree.
Mike


Edited by Mike McDonald - December/01/2009 at 07:34
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2009 at 09:10
what ever the s&b gains at the high end, it certainly looses at the low end-at least to me- the one usually universallly unstated disadvantage to hold over reticles, is the need to move the head up and down even though an adjustable comb may provide an ideal optical axis at center of reticle. Whether this is done with a standard dimension mil reticle or one "calibrated" for specific loads. (z1000, one of the vortex). In these instances, the usual descriptive terminologies , such easy to get behind, provides error for off center hits, goes out the window. None the less, some of the scopes around today are amazing (zeiss,premier,etc) in the latitude allowed for this purpose. While not having tested a vortex I have had alot of time behind sb's and don't feel the 25x is what it's cracked up to be.
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338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2009 at 10:24
 
 
 
" Am seriously considering but was told that eye relief is a bare to not do the "nervous twitch" chin game..."
 
I guess that is what I was trying to see about...
 
"is the need to move the head up and down even though an adjustable comb may provide an ideal optical axis at center of reticle"
 
Dale I own two of them and completely agree with you that is why I am hoping I can dump them for cheaper models I realize now it is a disadvantage of even the best so if someone can do it for better for less I am going to jump ship the problem is I know I cannot find a buyer that will even approach what I paid so it will be interesting... It sounds as if this "RAZOR" product is a fantastic product for the money or at least is a good profit margin scope...
 
I realize it is a optical or magnification nightmare but someone will at some point in time get it negligible I hope...


Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - December/06/2009 at 10:30
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2009 at 13:13
kind of waiting on the razor for a year or so, but what mike has to say goes aloooong way. my concern with the razor, and its not just the razor but ffp scopes which have large ranges in their erector, such as the 3x18 ior which is the worst for having something not usable in extremes of the magnification range. with a 6x erector,(or magnification of the cross hair 6x is just too much)  but some of the 5x's are almost as bad. 4x seems to a good middle ground, but I can't see how the vortex horus type reticle would be anything but a nightmare at 5x in the extremes of the power range.
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338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2009 at 13:32

"I like where your head is at" that is just it...

Also the idea of 180 LOS vs. 175 or 185...
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Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2009 at 17:35
Dale,
Notice I said nothing about the christmas tree?
It don't work.
The scope has enough positive going on that it does not need gimmickery.............although the word does look cool in the post :)
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338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2009 at 17:47
DEFINED
 
 
 
Try it...


Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - December/06/2009 at 17:51
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2009 at 17:54
Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

Dale,
Notice I said nothing about the christmas tree?
It don't work.
The scope has enough positive going on that it does not need gimmickery.............although the word does look cool in the post :)
thanks thats what I was wondering--- hard to just try stuff around here,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2011 at 21:20
Shocked
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