OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - good glass vs. magnification
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

good glass vs. magnification

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
RONK View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: April/05/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3199
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 17:45
 I don't like very brightly-colored targets, especially bright orange ones when I'm trying to shoot very tight groups. They tend to "flare" on me, drawing my eye away from the intersection of the crosshairs. Dull reds aren't so bad, but I like gray best, for that and for the reason Budperm noted.
Back to Top
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Offline
Points: 14569
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 18:17
Cool, I'll have to try the gray. I haven't experimented with different colors but I do know that I don't like "plain Jayne" black on traditional paper targets. I don't get the flare using orange but it sounds like I'm using a lot smaller circles than you Ron. Wink 
“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
Back to Top
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31710
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 18:17
Jerry Springer
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



Back to Top
onfinal View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: April/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onfinal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 18:29
Thanks for all the input. Very helpful and I appreciate it, but leads to one more question: does a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 qualify as "good glass" or is it not there yet?
Back to Top
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Offline
Points: 14569
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 18:44
Originally posted by onfinal onfinal wrote:

Thanks for all the input. Very helpful and I appreciate it, but leads to one more question: does a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 qualify as "good glass" or is it not there yet?


onfinal, you would not be disappointed with a Zeiss Conquest as it will run circles around your Leupold VX-1. Thunbs Up
“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
Back to Top
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 19:16

Am not suggesting that Leupold glass is the best in the world, but am constantly puzzled by examples that don't fit my experience. Was out the other day shooting a .257 Weatherby at 200 meters (219 yards) and could see the bullet holes easily with a 3.5-10x40 VX-III (not the latest VX-3)--and 25-caliber bullets holes at 219 yards are considerably smaller than .224 bullet holes at 100.

Back to Top
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Offline
Points: 14569
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 20:18




Smile




“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 21:40
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

Am not suggesting that Leupold glass is the best in the world, but am constantly puzzled by examples that don't fit my experience. Was out the other day shooting a .257 Weatherby at 200 meters (219 yards) and could see the bullet holes easily with a 3.5-10x40 VX-III (not the latest VX-3)--and 25-caliber bullets holes at 219 yards are considerably smaller than .224 bullet holes at 100.



Everyone's eyes are different.  My shooting partner, for example, with the same scope carefully tuned to his eyes sees very different amount of detail than I do.

Then there is another consideration entirely: I suspect that most shooters close their other eye completely when using a high mag riflescope.  If you keep just slightly open, it changes the visual acuity of your shooting eye.

ILya
Back to Top
sakomato View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/28/2008
Location: Houston
Status: Offline
Points: 1166
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sakomato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2009 at 21:52
Perhaps we need to get E over here to teach us how to focus those Leupolds!
 
Uhh.......not!
 
John, I have seen a couple of Leupolds that had an almost clear image but several that did not.  I do think they are a usable optic rifle sighting instrument but IMO are totally outclassed by the Conquest.  I reload for over 40 rifles, most of them very seldom, and some of those do have Leupolds on them.  The quality of the image seems to vary some from one to the other.
 
The 3x9x40 has the same clarity as the higher powers, just not as much light gathering.  The Conquests are larger and heavier.
Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians
Back to Top
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 09:46
sakomato,
 
I would agree on all points, partly because Leupold makes different levels of scopes. But I do not think that a Leupold VX-3, for instance, is totally outclassed by the Conquest, because I bave tested both at night on my optics chart.
 
At the moment, I have a 3-9x Conquest, a Swarovski Z3 and Z6, a 3-9x Trijicon, several Burris's, several Bushhell 4200's, and a Nightforce on various rifles. I am familiar with the view through a Zeiss Conquest, as I was sent one of the very first made, and have used several since.
 
I was not claiming that Leupold makes the best glass in the world (as was plainly stated in my first post on third thread) just that my experience with seeing bullets holes with a 3.5-10x was different than somebody else's.
 
But I have grown a little weary of some of the claims I have seen against Leupold on opticstalk. Another one a few months ago was from a guy who claimed that he now used only Swarovski because he was unable to aim at a deer in daylight across an open meadow at 200 yards with a 3.5-10x Leupold. Such BS is just as bad as claiming that Leupolds have the best glass in the world.
 
 
Back to Top
Roy Finn View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Steiner Junkie

Joined: April/05/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4856
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 10:11
I think we know your position on Leupold products, so what's your thought's on glass vs. magnification?
Back to Top
onfinal View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: April/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onfinal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 10:55
I wasn't trying to start a heated debate about the pros and cons of Leupold products when I asked my original question about good glass. Much of my experience is with hand guns (wanna talk Glocks?) and I'm a little late to the quality optics party, as you can see.

What others can see through their whatever is beside the point. I have a Leupold VX-1 that I feel is inadequate for my needs and I was trying to get a feel for what would meet my needs, considering weight, length and cost limitations.

I was looking for answers not a critique, and to the 99% of you who responded with good ideas about good glass and targets, thank you very much. The search begins..........
Back to Top
Trays 7940 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/09/2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 1149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trays 7940 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 11:19
I got in here late but, I can see 223 holes at 100yds with my Super Sniper 10X with nooo problem at all...  My eyes are not as good as they once were either...  I think I would have to go with good glass over Magnification....  Atleast right now... Bandito


I don't shoot innocent animals, just the one's who look guilty.
Back to Top
TJ427 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: September/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJ427 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 11:43
Thanks for the info. There really is no substitute for quality glass.
Back to Top
Tip69 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
Tip Stick

Joined: September/27/2005
Location: Nebraska
Status: Offline
Points: 4155
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 12:25
I'm really glad you opened this thread, as I think I learned something about the type of target I was using and what type of optic I was trying to see my holes with!   Will be trying some plain white paper with various "bullseyes" to see which are easier to see the holes with!

So, my opinion might change slightly.  Currently, I think it's a combination of good glass and magnification.
take em!
Back to Top
onfinal View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: April/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onfinal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 13:56
Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

I'm really glad you opened this thread, as I think I learned something about the type of target I was using and what type of optic I was trying to see my holes with!   Will be trying some plain white paper with various "bullseyes" to see which are easier to see the holes with!

So, my opinion might change slightly.  Currently, I think it's a combination of good glass and magnification.


I'm glad I opened it, too. I had not given that much thought to targets before, but I will now. I have already found a white/light gray target that will replace the black/dark red ones I was getting at the range. I still plan to upgrade from the Leupold VX-1 though.
Back to Top
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 15:41
I often use blue-and-white targets. They give very good contrast too, while allowing bullet holes to be seen. There are some very good ones on the market, such as those from Mountain Plains, but I also carry a couple of big, blue Magic Markers in my range bag to make targets. Blue also works very well for iron sights, as well as scopes.
Back to Top
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Offline
Points: 14569
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 16:02
Blue looks like another good color try John.  Thunbs Up





I'd like to try this one for my rifle with open sights.
“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
Back to Top
Jon A View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: March/14/2008
Location: Everett, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 670
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 17:42
Yes, as mentioned target color can make a big difference.  Even with good glass, a bullet can "hide in the black" sometimes when other holes are very obvious.  I also print my own targets and instead of using black I use a dark gray which helps quite a bit.

Back to the original question, yes good glass can certainly trump magnification within reason.  A good example for me in the theme of seeing holes in targets was with a 2.5-10 IOR I could often see 30 cal holes at 300 yds I could not see with a Leupold 4.5-14X50 VXIII.

But as I said--within reason.  For an example the other way, while the glass of that IOR was certainly better (by a ways) when on the same power as my Vortex Viper 6.5-20X50, I can pretty easily see .22 cal holes at 300 with the Viper where the IOR doesn't have a prayer.
Back to Top
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 18:42
A lot also depends on objective size. A smaller objective at the same magnification doesn't allow as fine resolution as a larger objective with the same magnification, everything being equal.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.