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Sighting in EOTech

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jonoMT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 13:08
I'm basing the following off of a couple of assumptions I had to make since the closest bullets I could find are the Hornady .224 V-Max (G1 BC: .255) and the SP and SP-Super Explosive (G1 BC: .235). Either way, given that muzzle velocity, the characteristics of the AR and what your goals are, I suggest zeroing @ 200, which will give you a 4" kill radius from 10-250 yards. From 30-200 yards you will never be more than 1.1" high. While I recommend sighting in @ 200 yards, 60 yards is your other option. This is if you go with the Hornady 55gr.

The Hornady 75gr. TAP, if zeroed at 175 yards (or 55 yards), would give you a 4" kill radius from 10-220 yards and a 2" radius from 30-200 yards.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BGonzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 14:13
Thanks guys for the info...the reason why I asked the question in the first place is I had my EO zeroed at 50 and when I took it to the range the other day and shot it from 10-20 yds. I noticed that POI was 4-6 inches below POA and it just struck up the question in my mind what range would be best to zero at...I haven't checked the zero in a while so it may be off which could explain the 4-6 inch discrepency...
 
Oh and I do use 62gr soft point for hunting, but since I really only plan to use it for hogs and maybe squirrels, I think I could get by with headshots with the 55gr ammo...
 
Also, someone talked about the "overpenetration" issue with the AR, but there was a study done by the FBI (I believe) and they were saying that 9mm FMJ handgun rounds penetrated with more deadly force than the 55gr FMJ AR rounds due to the fragmentation effect of the .223/5.56 round.  Obviously you have to be careful with any shot you take inside your home since drywall doesn't offer much in terms of cover for your loved ones.  I can post the link to the study if you guys would like to see it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 15:28
 I think the overpenetration concern is given way too much hype, especially when adequate penetration needed to stop the threat is debated just as often.
 When you face a human intruder inside your home and fear for your life and that of your loved ones, you are already in a situation of grave danger in which almost anything can happen. Make sure that nobody you love is in the line of fire and put the varmint down ASAP. End the threat quickly with a round capable of doing so.
If the bullet goes through him and hits your neighbors' pink flamingo or lawn jockey on the way out, oh well; he should have chosen a nicer neighborhood to live in. He should buy you a beer for preventing that perp from hitting his house for an invasion the next time he needed a fix...
 Just my opinion; that there's probably no really safe way to shoot a criminal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 17:55
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

If the bullet goes through him and hits your neighbors' pink flamingo or lawn jockey on the way out, oh well; he should have chosen a nicer neighborhood to live in.
 
Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, eh Ron?  Excellent Laugh


Edited by cheaptrick - September/13/2009 at 17:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 18:21
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 I think the overpenetration concern is given way too much hype, especially when adequate penetration needed to stop the threat is debated just as often.
 When you face a human intruder inside your home and fear for your life and that of your loved ones, you are already in a situation of grave danger in which almost anything can happen. Make sure that nobody you love is in the line of fire and put the varmint down ASAP. End the threat quickly with a round capable of doing so.
If the bullet goes through him and hits your neighbors' pink flamingo or lawn jockey on the way out, oh well; he should have chosen a nicer neighborhood to live in. He should buy you a beer for preventing that perp from hitting his house for an invasion the next time he needed a fix...
 Just my opinion; that there's probably no really safe way to shoot a criminal.


An important note on POA/POI:  when the adrenaline is pumping, you will not be thinking, "I need to aim 4 inches low to compensate for the bullet rise to my 100-yad zero; I really need to aim 4 inches below the exact spot on the intruder where I want to make impact."

I ALWAYS(!) recommend having an aiming device, whether laser or site or optic, that is dead-on at 10 yards for CQB weapons.  I've heard the "I'll jut aim low" line a few times and ahve seen that not work.

When the time comes to start sending rounds, your brain has shut down all critical thinking pathways - as well as rational thinking pathways.

You better have an idiot-proof plan.  For AR's, my referernce is either a red-dot for up close and irons for back-up longer - or a magnifying scope for longer and a laser for up close.  I own both, I run both, I like both for different reasons (lasers can fail but they make a serious mental barrier for any idiot who sees one floating over a body part.

Though Supertool has told me others have told him I am stupid: I am a HUGE advocate for a 12-gauge, pump-action shotgun for home defense (preferably with a light on the pump.)  I don't touch the shotgun till I need it and once I need it the game goes till it ends; however, the guy breaking in to your house may not have committed to kill everyone inside no matter the cost, so his hearing a 12-gauge round get racked into the chamber will play a significant part in his decision to fight or flight.  I don't plan on racking the round to end the fight, but I damn sure know I'd slow way the hell down if advancing in the direction of that sound. 


So, EoTech is great for up close work, but zero it at the range you anticipate engaging - DO NOT zero it at 100 yards and decide that you'll just remember, in that instant of "life-n-death", to aim low.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 18:36
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 I think the overpenetration concern is given way too much hype, especially when adequate penetration needed to stop the threat is debated just as often.
 When you face a human intruder inside your home and fear for your life and that of your loved ones, you are already in a situation of grave danger in which almost anything can happen. Make sure that nobody you love is in the line of fire and put the varmint down ASAP. End the threat quickly with a round capable of doing so.
If the bullet goes through him and hits your neighbors' pink flamingo or lawn jockey on the way out, oh well; he should have chosen a nicer neighborhood to live in. He should buy you a beer for preventing that perp from hitting his house for an invasion the next time he needed a fix...
 Just my opinion; that there's probably no really safe way to shoot a criminal.


An important note on POA/POI:  when the adrenaline is pumping, you will not be thinking, "I need to aim 4 inches low to compensate for the bullet rise to my 100-yad zero; I really need to aim 4 inches below the exact spot on the intruder where I want to make impact."

I ALWAYS(!) recommend having an aiming device, whether laser or site or optic, that is dead-on at 10 yards for CQB weapons.  I've heard the "I'll jut aim low" line a few times and ahve seen that not work.

When the time comes to start sending rounds, your brain has shut down all critical thinking pathways - as well as rational thinking pathways.

You better have an idiot-proof plan.  For AR's, my referernce is either a red-dot for up close and irons for back-up longer - or a magnifying scope for longer and a laser for up close.  I own both, I run both, I like both for different reasons (lasers can fail but they make a serious mental barrier for any idiot who sees one floating over a body part.

Though Supertool has told me others have told him I am stupid: I am a HUGE advocate for a 12-gauge, pump-action shotgun for home defense (preferably with a light on the pump.)  I don't touch the shotgun till I need it and once I need it the game goes till it ends; however, the guy breaking in to your house may not have committed to kill everyone inside no matter the cost, so his hearing a 12-gauge round get racked into the chamber will play a significant part in his decision to fight or flight.  I don't plan on racking the round to end the fight, but I damn sure know I'd slow way the hell down if advancing in the direction of that sound. 


So, EoTech is great for up close work, but zero it at the range you anticipate engaging - DO NOT zero it at 100 yards and decide that you'll just remember, in that instant of "life-n-death", to aim low.


 Rancid- If he zeroes an AR in .223 to hit Point Of Aim at 100 yards, he won't need to hold low anwhere in between that and the muzzle. He wont be hitting more than maybe an inch high at 60 yards or so, and that would be where the bullet would be highest with that particular zero, in relation to line of sight.
 I'm guessing and estimating that, but one of you guys with the computer ballistics at your fingertips could either verify that or shoot me down... I'm talking an Eotech on a Flattop here, with enough riser height to work with an A2 stock or similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 10:59
Personally, I've seen a rise of 3+ inches from a 10-yard shot to a 100-yard zero, using TAP.

But the point to make and retain is that no gun will shoot any distance until it has been verified at that distance, never "assume!'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 18:58
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

If the bullet goes through him and hits your neighbors' pink flamingo or lawn jockey on the way out, oh well; he should have chosen a nicer neighborhood to live in.
 
Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, eh Ron?  Excellent Laugh
 
  Absolutely!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 20:00
I'm not a fan of small calibers at close range. The closer the threat the larger the caliber should be in fact a Howitzer at point blank range is about ideal.  I really do not typically favor "assault rifles" for home defense mainly because how it will look in court.  I think that grandpa's shotgun is the look I want in court or a handgun of the same make and caliber I carry on duty preferably using the same ammo.   As one who has actually shot at a burglar from inside my bedroom I will say that your ability to aim will not be very good under that stress and laser grips are a big plus or a dot sight.  If you think it is likely that someone will break in put that EOTec on a 12 ga semi auto Benelli riot gun because I've had a Remmington 12 ga pump jam in a gunfight following the first round.  If you want to zero at 10 yds do that.  My point on the 200 yd zero is that trajectory is so flat you will him somewhere at any closer distance,  but there is still a case for having an exact 10 yd zero in case of a  hostage situation you can put it right between their eyes. I do think you should know where it hits at alll distances out to at least 200 yds.  Also .223 is not acceptable for squirrel  hunting - what goes up must come down and you are responsible for bullets you launch upward at a squirrel that accidentally kill your neighbor.  My boys learned about trajectory by shooting rocks out of a slingshot at a bird in a tree and the result was the neighbors picture window got broken out.  You are responsible for damage you do and there is nothing more irresponsible than shooting someone you did not intend to shoot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2009 at 21:12
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

  Also .223 is not acceptable for squirrel  hunting - what goes up must come down and you are responsible for bullets you launch upward at a squirrel that accidentally kill your neighbor. 
You are responsible for damage you do and there is nothing more irresponsible than shooting someone you did not intend to shoot.
 
 I disagree, with qualifications.
That first sentence is just as true for a .22 rimfire as it is for a .223 or a Kentucky rifle or an arrow. Cartridge choice doesn't usually determine whether the shot is a safe one to take or not.
 Backstop your squirrel shots with the trunk of the tree or shoot them on the ground.
 Here in Wisconsin, we are very often able to backstop them with a nearby hill, even when they are in trees.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sholling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 00:23
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I'm not a fan of small calibers at close range. The closer the threat the larger the caliber should be in fact a Howitzer at point blank range is about ideal.

It sounds like you bumped in some of the same sorts I knew when I was younger. :D

Quote I really do not typically favor "assault rifles" for home defense mainly because how it will look in court.

I can't disagree however 55gr 5.56 has a reputation of penetrating fewer walls than 00 buck which reduces the possibility of co-lateral damage. However I gave myself options and keep a custom Mini-14, Benelli M1, and a 45acp (with laser) handy in my bedroom. 

If I were running an EOTech on an AR in the home I'd sight in at 25yds. Co-inkidinkly that's where I sighted my 5.56 AR. ;) but it lives in the safe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BGonzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 11:36
Well I live in Texas so the issue with what gun you use to protect yourself doesn't matter under the "castle law" here just as long as you can prove that your life was in danger when you used deadly force.  Again I'll say I agree with you about the 12 ga shotgun being better for home defense, but since I don't have one the next best option is my AR.  I am much faster and much more accurate with my AR than my 9mm handgun, so I would prefer that if the SHTF....oh and btw...I would MUCH rather have my AR for a hostage situation than a 12 ga shotgun...you can't be precise with a shotgun like you can an AR
 
About the squirrels....I don't have squirrels in my suburban neighborhood so missing a squirrel and hitting a neighbor isn't an issue.  I'd use a pellet gun in that situation anyway.  I've taken squirrels with headshots from 50 yds with my AR and EOTech setup...even some from 100 yds with a scoped .243 rifle.  So I don't think the cartridge with which I take them is an issue...But they were all takin in the country where I hunt.  Like I said before I'm not some weekend shooter who knows nothing about shot composition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2009 at 11:50
Nothing better for squirrels than a suppressed .22LR - except a shotgun, but where's the fun in that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2009 at 09:02
All my Eo's are sighted in at 50yds. At very close range I always use the bottom of the circle as my aiming point. That's how I've trained through several carbine classes and now it's automatic w/o any concious thought on my part.
Tomac
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BGonzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2009 at 10:30
Tomac,
 
Thanks for the tip....what carbine classes have you attended?  I'm looking into some right now actually
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2009 at 10:34
Originally posted by BGonzo BGonzo wrote:

Tomac,
 
Thanks for the tip....what carbine classes have you attended?  I'm looking into some right now actually
 
You're welcome. The classes I attended were local by DefTac, they specialize in Mil/LEO but also do civvie classes on the side. There are a number of reputable firms that teach good classes, do a search and find the one that best suits your needs and budget. Keep us posted!...
Tomac
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BGonzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2009 at 16:04
I have found a couple so far...the one that I'm leaning towards is Tiger Valley in Dallas, TX....mostly because I live in TX so it would be convenient.  Have you heard anything good or bad about these guys?
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