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Flinching Problem |
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JF4545
Optics Master Joined: March/31/2009 Location: Washington Status: Offline Points: 2753 |
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Posted: August/29/2009 at 21:59 |
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Im hoping some of you guys can help me. A few years ago I had to give up hunting and shooting completely.This was due to a fall I had taken which then led to a brain surgery and many, many more problems.. Some of which I still suffer from. So one of the things Ive noticed since starting to shoot again is a flinch. Im sure some of it was there before but not anywhere as bad as it is today. Especially when shooting medium to larger hunting rifles.. Sure I can still shoot well enough to kill a Deer within 200 yards or less. But the flinch sure makes it alot harder to make a clean shot! One of my goals when joining this site was to become a better shooter, so any ideas on what I should do or try guys? Sure would appreciate it.
Thanks!
JF
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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That sounds like a difficult situation to deal with but kudos to you for trying. I don't know if it would help, but perhaps a combination of dry firing (using snap caps) and firing a lesser caliber rifle like a .22 quite a bit will help condition your reflexes. Also while at the range, it may be good to use both ear plugs and muff-style ear protectors. Dampening the sound could help for a while. As far as controlling recoil, try to keep the butt of the rifle snugged tight into your shoulder. I wish you luck and keep trying.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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As Jon said, it is a difficult thing to deal with, and it will take a long time to overcome. The first thing you have to do is to realize that (especially so in your case), the flinch is a reaction to what your mind/body perceives as a threat to your central nervous system and reacts accordingly, as it is naturally programmed to do.
You cannot possibly tough your way through it.
As far as I know, the only way to cure a chronic flinch is to eliminate all moderate to severe recoil, and as much muzzle blast as possible every time you go shooting. Use ear plugs AND comfortable ear muffs with a high Noise Reduction Rating. Shoot only a .22 rimfire daily for a month or more, concentrating on trigger control and follow-through after the trigger break.
Slowly work your way through a little more blast and recoil in gradual increments- .223, 22-.250, .243, .257, .308 etc.
You must stop and go back a step or two the very moment the finch returns, and at some point you have to decide how much is enough, and stop there for good, if you wish to completely master control.
Everyone has a limit, and unfortunately yours is simply going to be one with much less recoil than it would be for someone who doesn't have the injury issues that you do.
Good luck.
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Ed Connelly
Optics Retard God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24225 |
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I think that flinching is simply psychological. You are THINKING too much while pulling the trigger.....even sub-consciously. Whenever I was shooting a Magnum--- and I wanted to Train Myself to NOT FLINCH ---I used to get my brain occupied on something else......LIKE HITTING THE TARGET!! So I moved the target down to Twenty Five Yards and sat there and aimed at a certain spot on the target----like the last bullet hole----and I would just concentrate on aiming Right At That Bullet Hole....and I would just concentrate on squeezing that trigger without wiggling those crosshairs even the littlest bit.....and the gun would go off.
And after a while....voila.... you are not flinching.....'cause your brain was busy doin' something else.....and now, after two boxes of shells, you are used to shooting the gun.........
" That will be twenty bucks...."
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JF4545
Optics Master Joined: March/31/2009 Location: Washington Status: Offline Points: 2753 |
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Ed? Did this young woman help you not think while you were aiming at the last bullet hole?
The reader is in the mail I am listening to you guys! Well I was until you sent me this picture of your sister.... Edited by JF4545 - August/29/2009 at 23:52 |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Julio, just stare at the picture while you are shooting. Your flinch will be gone in no time. You may not hit the target, but you won't really care...
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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trigger29
Optics Master Extraordinaire X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ? Joined: September/29/2007 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 4353 |
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I've just learned to concentrate on the trigger squeeze, and focus on where the crosshairs are. I never know when the gun is going to go off, so I can't flinch. I work my triggers until they break cleanly, and have no creep, that way if I am squeezing correctly, I can't anticipate the recoil, or trigger break. Maybe a trigger job will help? I've not really had a flinching problem, so I'm just throwing things out there.
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
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budperm
Optics Retard show me your sheep!! Joined: January/01/2009 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31710 |
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Great advice from just about everybody! Shoot lots of small caliber stuff, really concentrate of teh POI and trigger pull. With good clean breaking trigger you won't know when the gun will fire so you won't have time to flitch. I really do believe that flinching is mostly a pyschological reaction to preceived danger. Weither it is re-enforced by bodily injury or some other trauma, with the correct mental conditioning it should be controllable.
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"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson |
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lucytuma
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: November/25/2007 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 5389 |
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All good advice, conentrate on the trigger, target and put lots of time behind a rimfire. |
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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I forgot to mention one other thing I've found that has helped. Think of the process of firing as a mechanical action instead of shooting a gun. We all know what the lethality of a weapon is and maybe that conditions us to react to the explosion even behind the trigger.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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JF4545
Optics Master Joined: March/31/2009 Location: Washington Status: Offline Points: 2753 |
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Im still trying to get over the picture of Eds sister, Wow Ed! No Offense But Shes a Keeper. I hope my wife does not find out she going to be target shooting with me later this afternoon.. This will strictly be a theraputic exercise of course.
Ok back to the thread, Ive noticed the flinch got alot worse since the last time I shot a rifle about 6 Years ago. Ive just recently in the last year or so picked up a rifle again. And yes you guys are right, from the top of my head to the base of my neck Ive received trauma, including having the base of part of my skull removed. And there is a titanium plate screwed in up above that. They also did two lamanectomies on the first 2 vertibraes just like I had recently done to my lower back twice....So Im thinking its mostly fear that is creating the flinch as my body/mind as a couple of you already said, wants to protect it self....And to be honest I do not blame itIts as if My mind has a mind of its own and its tired of pain. With or without pain meds it does not matter... So you guys are always talking about going to the range, well today will be my first trip ever with a a couple friends and NO my wife said Eds sister CANNOT GO! I just do not understand that! The rifle range is quite a ways away in another state, but it will be fun. Im going to let someone else shoot one of my Deer rifles now after reading what Ron & Jo said. I will give it a brake. I will shoot my 223 which does not seem to bother me, I love to shoot my AR....and I like shooting 22's also always have and I may even buy a newer one. The 22 I have is a Remington Auto 550-l, My Dad bought it for me 39 years ago here in town for 55.00 and it still shoots great .. I may look at a newer one though if Im going to be doing alot of shooting then again the 223 may work well enough. I will find out today! There is a chance I may never get beyond it, but I will give it a shot (no pun intended) So Thanks for the advice and I will let you guys know how it goes down the road.
JF
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3_tens
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/08/2007 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7853 |
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Another drill for flinching is to have someone else to load the weapon with a snap caps mixed in so you do not know if the rifle is going to go off or not.
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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.
Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow Now the rules have changed again. |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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I would carefully weigh the decision to confine myself to .223-class recoil vs. taking chances with heavier recoil possibly causing permanent damage. I'd sure hate to lose my ability to shoot any rifle, just because I further injured myself by foolishly shooting heavier ones than my body could handle. You should probably consult your doctor and try to get his opinion of how much recoil your system can handle without further injury. If he's not a shooter, it may be a bit difficult to explain to him what you mean, though.
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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i'd double up on my hearing protection and get a lead sled. i always shoot with a pair of custom fit ear plugs and a set of ear muffs on top of that. and it really seems to help me.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Ed Connelly
Optics Retard God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24225 |
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Yes....maybe you should just shoot a 243 or something and stick with that!!
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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I like the "dry firing" suggestion, posted earlier.
I spend an inordinate amount of time dry firing center fire rifles and my Glock 17, but only use Snap Caps for malfunction drills. I dry fire at the range before shooting groups for 20 minutes or so as well.
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sakomato
Optics Master Joined: February/28/2008 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1166 |
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I'm starting flinch everytime I open one of Ed's posts!! I won't tell you what part of me is flinching!
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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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your eye lids? |
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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swtucker
Optics Master Joined: September/03/2008 Location: Low Moor Status: Offline Points: 1430 |
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+1 works really well.
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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Julio you ought to see if one of the guys here wants to buy that 270 WSM Kimber from you before you hurt yourself trying to prove you can shoot it. One other thing we have not really addressed is the idea of using an Encore Pistol in a rifle caliber for hunting
http://www.bullberry.com/ While you may not be able to sustain recoil to your shoulder a pistol's recoil is directed differently and you could very likely use one in any number of heavy calibers 30-06 280 6.5x284 300 Win Mag, 338 Federal etc. I have had one in .308 which was very mild and pleasant to shoot and I currently have 45-70 which is a wicked painful beast almost unbearable with a hot 350 gr JHP and only a tad past uncomfortable with a 300 gr loaded hot. And it spits big clouds of smoke with 70 grains of black powder and a 405 gr so its lots of fun to load for. I think that you might buy one and find you wanted a couple of different barrels and the 280 or 30-06 would be where I would start as those will let you know if you want stronger calibers or lighter. These pistols are fully capable of taking elk several hundred yards out with a good Leupold pistol scope or a Aimpoint.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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