Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials. |
COLOR CASE HARDENING |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||
rifle looney
Optics Master Joined: November/21/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2553 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: May/13/2009 at 22:14 |
|
Besides Doug Turnbull has any one used someone else to have this done?I want to do my Ruger 44 mag Bisley model frame and hammer, I have had the barrel cut down to 6" and want to put a different front sight with a barrelband as well, then get a set of aged fuax ivory grips.
|
||
Ed Connelly
Optics Retard God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24225 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I haven't used anybody to case harden, but there are a bunch of guys out there doin' it.
|
||
Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I say do nickel and real ivory.
|
||
"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
||
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
James, one thing to consider with your project. With modern heat treated steels, the color case hardening process can sometimes cause problems like warping, cracking, etc. if it isn't done while the steel is in the annealed state. Consequently, some people won't do it on a current production, out of the box factory gun.
Doug Turnbull is the best in the industry at color case hardening... period. Even if you don't use his services, I would call and get his company's advice on whether or not it's a good idea to have it done on your revolver and heed the advice. I once considered having a Ruger #1 receiver color case hardened and was advised against it for the reasons mentioned above.
Wes's idea about nickel and ivory is a good alternative to consider, though real ivory grips are pretty expensive.
|
||
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
||
Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
All that said, NOTHING I've seen looks as good as a nice case hardened weapon. It is a beautiful thing. I am considering buying a gun I'll probably almost never shoot just because I like the color case hardened finish.
Who makes a nice case hardened break-open revolver in a common cartridge (no 44-40 or such)? |
||
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
||
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I agree; a well executed color case job is a thing of beauty! I don't know about the break-open criteria, but the nicest color cased classic handguns I've ever seen have all come directly from Turnbull. They have their own line of handguns, not just restoration work. Their work is the standard from which all others are judged.
Anybody heard anything about these folks' work?:
|
||
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
||
Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
http://www.uberti.com/firearms/top_break.php
That's more what I was looking for. Dammit, man; I didn't need a $2000 revolver, but now I "need" a $2,000 revolver! |
||
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
||
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
If you've ever seen Turnbull's work -- not just all the fantastic metal finishes they do, but also their metalwork, stockwork, superb checkering, and wood to metal fit... it will nearly make you cry! You suddenly start thinking of things you can sell to finance a Turnbull project!
You should see some of their "no holds barred" classic Winchester lever actions up close and personal! Every other lever action will then look like crap from then on!
Uberti's guns are pretty nice for what they are...
But there's no comparison to anything Turnbull puts out.
Then again, it's not a fair comparison, because nobody else does comparable work either!
|
||
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
||
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
...I rest my case...
|
||
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
||
silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
If they do stuff for Bill Ogslsby, then I've seen it, and it is nice and they should have a good lead time. Call Bill and ask him. Tell him the crazy guy from Bloomington Ind sent you. Bill did a 1911 for me a few years back. I went over to the shop which is about 4 hour drive. They had some nice case hardened stuff in the shop. Bill's shop does some AMAZING stuff with Rugers that only Bowen compares to. Bill's stuff is art in both form and function.
|
||
"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
WWW.formitch.com |
||
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thanks for the feedback, silver. That's good to know!
|
||
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
||
Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Dammit, this is not helping, now I need a lever gun!
That first one is flipp'in sweet. I'm not a "gold in-lay" kinda guy, but the engraving looks fantastic, and I am a case hardened fan. |
||
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
||
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
||
silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
One piece ejector housing with barrel band sight?
|
||
"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
WWW.formitch.com |
||
Steelbenz
Optics Jedi Knight ROLL TIDE ROLL Joined: January/03/2006 Location: Heart of Dixie Status: Offline Points: 5153 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Man I agree with RC, those things are sweet!!! |
||
"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"
|
||
budperm
Optics Retard show me your sheep!! Joined: January/01/2009 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31710 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thats definitely the prettyist lever I have ever seen! SWEET!!!
|
||
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson |
||
jplower
Optics GrassHopper Joined: April/05/2010 Location: ohio Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Turnbull color is not hardening, it's only cosmetic. Ruger frames are so tough that color hardening would be unnecessary. In discussions years ago with Doug he admitted his color is not hard because he fears it will warp frames. He can actually get a hard surface, but I seriously doubt that his current "color" is actually hard on the surface. This is the reason all his work has been spray varnished. If it were not for the varnish, the color rubs off. Most people looking at his work ASSUME it's hard, but his process is not authentic as far as color on oriignal coltls and winchesters. There was a time when he was smaller and at the old location when the color did match very closely, but I believe the water supply and or his fear of warpage and the subsequent legal problems that could result have changed the quality. He's the biggest NAME on the block, but by far not the best. Scratch one of his color jobs in a hidden area with a screwdriver, it will ma and scratch the metal. Rea case color can barely be touched.
|
||
J.P.
|
||
RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
With all due respect, that is not entirely true, especially with regards to vintage guns. He does the original, authentic bone and charcoal process the same as was done on the original Colts and Winchesters, but he has perfected the process so that he gets more vibrant colors. I have actually talked with him about this. The surface is indeed case hardened the same as any other color case job. He anneals the steel first and uses a jig, along with a precisely controlled process to control warpage. Anytime you place annealed low carbon steel parts into a furnace packed with charcoal and bone, you will carburize the steel surface, i.e., case hardening. This applies to soft steels that can accept additional carbon. The Winchester rifles and Colt pistols he has restored, as shown on the previous pages have an authentic color case hardened finish.
It's true that color case hardening can cause warpage and isn't advisable to do on modern alloy steels that have been pre-hardened... usually through-hardened, as is the case with modern firearms. This applies not only to Rugers, but all modern firearms. Color case hardening provides no benefit for chrome moly steels other than cosmetic, and if these steels have been prehardened, it can destroy the heat treat properties. This concern is not limited to Turnbull, but anyone else doing color case hardening. This may be what you heard. While it may be true that he has developed a special process for countering warpage and providing a color case appearance on modern steels that have already been heat treated, to say he is using some sort of simulated process that isn't authentic case color on the softer steels used on old Colts and Winchesters is simply false. If he is applying a simulated color case finish on pre- heat treated steels, at least he provides that option. Some others who do color case work won't apply the process to modern firearms at all. In other words, he is faced with the exact same limitations as anyone else who does color case hardening.
If Turnbull isn't the best in the industry at metal finishes, then why is it that some of the most prominent custom gunmakers in the world use his services, and why is it that he is most often regarded as the best? His work is usually the standard by which all others are judged. He didn't reach that status by doing substandard work.
|
||
Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
||
jplower
Optics GrassHopper Joined: April/05/2010 Location: ohio Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Well Ted, it's like I said, Doug is a great self promoter. I've watched him grow over the years and he did everything and anything to get his name in the limelight. He fanagled 200 raw guns from Colt to put his finish on it at a time when Colt should have been thinking about how to improve their own guns instead of letting an outsider outshine them with their own products! It takes a lot of BS and other favors to make a marketing excutive flip on his own company. You'll note that there are no more "Turnbull Colts" because the new CEO put a stop to that self defeating practice. And there are very few collectors of high dollar Colts or Winchesters that regard his color as "matching original", it simply does not unless we are talking about the late Colts and 1886 winchesters, upon which he comes the closest. Turnbull is the go to for the Colt Collecgtors association MODERN gun work, but those collectors into antiques gag on his color and polishing. All one needs to do is read the preamble in any of his catalogs and you will know instantly where this man is at. He's done a good job at makeing himself a legend on the backs of those he has employed over the years.
|
||
J.P.
|
||
jplower
Optics GrassHopper Joined: April/05/2010 Location: ohio Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Let me add the reason Turnbull is shuned by some antique guys. Why would anyone want and expensive antique restoration done with the SAME color found on the modern guns he treats, like the USF single actions and others who send him volumes of clone guns that flood the market? Until his "restorations" look entirely different than his clone work, I will not have him do my restoration work. Incidentlally, the charcoal blue process he perfected flakes off if you wrap a gun in sandwich wrap for shipping sometimes. Best just to oil it and use paper. BTY, charcoal blue is not the color used on antique Colts pre 1900, another reason the antique guys don't like it. Too black.
|
||
J.P.
|
||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |