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Ring Marks

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Horsemany View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 18:54
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 What we had here was just a general all-around misunderstanding, and it was coupled with cosmic bad timing between certain posts.
 I actually think we all pretty much agree on general principles discussed here as applied appropriatly to various circumstances.
 
Roger, Roger.Wink
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RONK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 19:00
Yep, Thought So
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mike650 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 19:30
Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 

Roger, Roger!
Do we have clearance, Clarence?
What's our vector, Victor?

 

 
Ha Ha.  Mooove along.  Nothing to see here............Over and out.


Big Grin
“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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rifle looney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 19:33
Sorry I got here late.. anyway's for ring marks what is best coasters or napkins?  Big Grin
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Al Nyhus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Nyhus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 19:48
    There are only two ways to guarantee against ring marks/dented scope tubes:
 
   (1) Delrin bushings (Burris or the reducer bushings)
 
   (2) Lap the rings and then bed the scope tube to rings..top and bottom.
 
   Any other way has you at the mercy of tolerance stack up no matter how precisely the rings are made.
"Marsupials scare me".
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Phil3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 22:49
Thanks for the replies.  Unless I use the Burris Zee-Rings, it would appear lapping is mandatory to assure best fit and minimal scarring of the scope tube.  A few questions on lapping. 

1)  Lapping is going to enlarge the bore in the scope mount, so is it possible that the bore becomes large enough, and oval, where the scope tube now just touches two points in each ring? 

The two mounts in the links below is what I was considering.  I would expect this arrangement to be pretty straight and not need much work, but maybe not? 

http://www.jprifles.com/1.6.3.6.php

http://www.burrisoptics.com/arpepr.html

The following lapping kit seems to have received high reviews.  Recommended?

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=18588

I would think lapping is advisable, but using these on a 1" scope tube would end any marring of the tube. 

http://www.midwayusa.com/Eproductpage.Exe/showproduct?saleitemid=227261

I have heard some use of "scope tape".  What is that? 

- Phil


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rifle looney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 22:54
The lapping will not take off that much material it's like fine sandpaper it takes very little to do this.    the scope tape is just that as well as electrical tape it will work but the Burris rings or lapping is best, what kind of scope are you concerned about anyway?
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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 23:09
If you are that worried about it, go with the Burris Zee rings.  You do not have to worry about the scope moving at all.  I have used them on everything from my 22-250 to my 300 WM, to my 45-70 and never had a scope move on me.  Just my opinion.
To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON
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Phil3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 00:38
Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

"...what kind of scope are you concerned about anyway?


Don't have the scope yet...but these are on my short list for use on an AR-15 (.223) at 100, 200, and rarely, longer yardage. 

Leupold VX- 3   6.5 – 20 x 50.  $890.
30mm tube. 14.4” long.  20.4 oz.  94 MOA adjustment.  ¼ MOA clicks.  Side focus. 
http://www.swfa.com/pc-14373-2736-leupold-65-20x50-vx-3-30mm-riflescope.aspx

Leupold VX-3  6.5 – 20 x 40.  $750
1” tube.  14.5” long.  17.8 oz.  50 MOA adjustment.  ¼ MOA clicks.  Bell focus.
http://www.swfa.com/pc-14365-2736-leupold-65-20x40-vx-3-efr-riflescope.aspx

Bushnell Elite 4200  6 – 24 x 50.   $680
30mm tube.  16.9” long.  22 oz.  50 MOA adjustment.  ¼ MOA clicks.  Side focus.
http://www.swfa.com/pc-9847-185-bushnell-6-24x50-elite-4200-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx

Burris Black Diamond    6 – 24 x 50.  $840
30mm tube.  16.2” long.  21 oz.  52 MOA adjustment.  1/8 MOA clicks.  Side focus.
http://www.swfa.com/pc-8152-204-burris-6-24x50-black-diamond-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx

I really like the Zeiss Conquest with target turrets, but not sure how they compare, and they are really are getting too pricey.  And to stay out of the $1000+ range, I have to stick with the 4.5 – 14 magnification range.  OK perhaps for 100 and 200 yards, but for hitting small targets much further than that, I am not so sure. 

I did look through the Bushnell today on an AR-15.  Not bad, but had nothing to compare it to.  It did not seem as crisp and contrasty as it could be at full 24x.  But, doubt I would use all that except at longer ranges.

- Phil
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Al Nyhus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Nyhus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 07:19
   Phil: I'd consider the Bushnell 2.5-16X42  6500 series Tactical scope for that AR.
  
    Great glass, 30mm tube, side focus, just 17 oz, huge amt. of eye relief, user friendly 1/4" target adj., Mil Dot reticle.....plus it's a nice compact size that will fit an AR well.  And you'll have plenty of $ left over for some really nice rings like the snag free Tactical ones made by Glen Seekins.
 
 
 
"Marsupials scare me".
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RifleDude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 11:05
Originally posted by Al Nyhus Al Nyhus wrote:

    There are only two ways to guarantee against ring marks/dented scope tubes:
 
   (1) Delrin bushings (Burris or the reducer bushings)
 
   (2) Lap the rings and then bed the scope tube to rings..top and bottom.
 
   Any other way has you at the mercy of tolerance stack up no matter how precisely the rings are made.


Thunbs Up

If I'm not using rings with the reducer bushings, I always lap, just to make sure everything is perfect.  Other than about 30 minutes of your time and the cost of a ring lapping kit, there is no disadvantage to doing it, and it ensures you are getting a more perfect mating of the rings to the scope tube. 


Ted


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Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 11:39
All good suggestions so far. Another trick you can use in addition to lapping is to coat the insides of the rings with 3M spray adhesive much like what Buehler used to do. That also eliminates the scope from moving under recoil.
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RONK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 13:55
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

If you are that worried about it, go with the Burris Zee rings.  You do not have to worry about the scope moving at all.  I have used them on everything from my 22-250 to my 300 WM, to my 45-70 and never had a scope move on me.  Just my opinion.
 
Just to clarify a bit- You need to specify Signature rings if you want plastic inserts.
 ZEE rings are those  Burris rings that are compatible with Weaver type bases and AR Flattops. ZEE rings, as well as other styles, are available in Signature (insert) as well as "non-Signature, non-insert" models.
 (For a Flattop, you want Signature ZEE rings...if you choose that route.)
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 14:32
Thanks for pointing that out Ronk!  I meant the Signature rings with the inserts.  That is the only Burris rings I use right now.
To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bunkerdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 16:10
rubber cement works well to coat inside of rings after lapping---easy to find and easy cleanup---just rub it off with your finger---for lapping and alignment try kokopelli products in montana---john makes great stuff
http://www.kokopelliproducts.com/acckit.htm
Did Felix ever meet Ignatz?
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RONK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 16:27
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Thanks for pointing that out Ronk!  I meant the Signature rings with the inserts.  That is the only Burris rings I use right now.
 No problem, Andrew.
 I wish the ZEE rings had a better system to lock onto the base, but I've been singing that song for years, and the Burris folks just don't seem to want to listen to me!
 I need to walk into the CEO's office with a chainsaw, I guess...Chainsaw
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