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Evolution of the breed.

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1984 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 20:33
Thanks Al.I figured BR got pretty in depth but wow.Im going to go clean my 10/22 now in the fetal position.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 07:37
Originally posted by 1984 1984 wrote:

Thanks Al.I figured BR got pretty in depth but wow.Im going to go clean my 10/22 now in the fetal position.
 
Excellent 
 Yeah, no kidding!
 So Al, do you have any suggestions on how I can get my Mini 30 to shoot like that?
 Or preferably even better?
You seemed to have a couple 'flyers" in a few of those groups.
 
 (Not being critical, just sayin"...,)   Bucky
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 07:44
holy cow that thing shoots scary accurate!! nice stuff al!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 14:53
Thanks for the interest. Forgive the tangent.....I'm probably pizzin' people off on an optics board...talking about bullet making, blah, blah, blah.

Not at all. This is very interesting, thanks for the post.

So where does one go to find out about bench rest competitions in their area?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 15:37
Sparky.  What part of the world are you in?  I'm sure one of the members would be close enough to recommend a club or match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 17:45
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Thanks for the interest. Forgive the tangent.....I'm probably pizzin' people off on an optics board...talking about bullet making, blah, blah, blah.

Not at all. This is very interesting, thanks for the post.

So where does one go to find out about bench rest competitions in their area?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 17:51
Nice thread Al!Thunbs Up
 
If a scope manufacturer ever decided to get gutsy and make a non-adjustable 36 - 45X fixed telescope with fine crosshairs and 1" main tube, that would be just the ticket for BR! 
 
What % of benchrest competitors these days would you estimate are now going the external mount adjustment / fixed erector scope route instead of relying on the scope's W/E adjustments? 
 
One question, though -- why 30BR instead of 6PPC? 
 
If your results shown are indicative, it will definitely agg with the PPC, though!
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 18:34
30cal holes have a better chance of breaking into the next score ring than 6mm.  They are preferred by a lot of score shooters.  6ppc for group shooting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 18:59
Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

30cal holes have a better chance of breaking into the next score ring than 6mm.  They are preferred by a lot of score shooters.  6ppc for group shooting.
 
Yes, this is true.  I don't recall if Al said he was score shooting or group shooting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2009 at 19:19
Halfway down page 1 he explains how he sights in on the X which would be appropriate for score shooting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Nyhus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 05:18
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

 If a scope manufacturer ever decided to get gutsy and make a non-adjustable 36 - 45X fixed telescope with fine crosshairs and 1" main tube, that would be just the ticket for BR! 
 
What % of benchrest competitors these days would you estimate are now going the external mount adjustment / fixed erector scope route instead of relying on the scope's W/E adjustments? 
 
    RifleDude: If any scope company would step up and offer such a product, they would sell like crazy. That's the reality of where we're at right now in the BR game. They wouldn't have to do anthing exotic...just one of their standard BR scopes with a simple epoxy job at the rear pivot, leave the w/e adj. assys. out, screw a cap into where they used to be and that would be that.  The mfg.ing' costs wouldn't be any more than a 'normal' scope..maybe less since they are leaving out the w/e assys. Warranty problems would be virtually non-existent, save for any problems with the a.o. assys, which are fairly uncommon, now. Heck, they could make more money on these scopes than the 'normal' ones simply by pricing them a bit higher than the standard scope. As it is, we're buying $450-1,000 scopes, tearing them apart, tossing parts away and paying  to do these modifications if you can't do the work yourself.
 
     The other reality is: the only people that don't get it are the scope companies. Loco  Like Gomer used to say to Andy: "Shazam!" Wink  I would think even the corporate bean counters could get on board with this concept.
 
     That a well tuned BR rifle will shoot groups and scores well under the mfgs. 'accepted' tolerances for p.o.i. shifts should get the point across, I'd think?   -Al
 
    
 
    
 
   


Edited by Al Nyhus - April/21/2009 at 08:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 13:06
Al I think they "get it".  I think scope mfg's just aren't crazy about admitting their adjustment systems decrease accuracy.  They've all been marketing the opposite for years.  It would be a quantum leap to offer scopes with no adjustment IMO.  A good idea but I don't think we'll see it by any of the major mfg.s  Also I'm sure the purebread BR scopes are a small volume of the market for Leupold, Sightron, or Weaver.   I was talking to a Leupold rep last week about how it would be smart to offer the 1" BR series again instead of forfeting all those sales to Sightron and Weaver.  The new LCS scopes are 5oz heavier than the old 1" BR's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Nyhus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 16:20
Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

   I was talking to a Leupold rep last week about how it would be smart to offer the 1" BR series again instead of forfeting all those sales to Sightron and Weaver.  The new LCS scopes are 5oz heavier than the old 1" BR's.
 
    In the FX3 lineup, Leupold has quietly released  25X & 30x 'Silhouette' scopes...that are basically the old 1" BR scopes. The reticles aren't suitable for 100-300 BR work, but a reticle change would solve that. They don't have a locking a.o. on them ....which is controversial about how much it helps or not. A locking a.o. like the 'D' series Leupolds...if left loose...is bad, bad juju on target. But they're meant to be locked down. A good non-locking a.o. doesn't seem to be an issue as they are designed to have more load on the lens cell all the time. The locking ones are designed to loosen the lens cell when unlocked and then tighten up when snugged down.
 
    If a company like Leupold or Sightron was really savvy...they would offer scopes like this through their Custom Shop. The buyer could pick the base scope model they want and then add the options:
-  " No w/e adjustments and a locked rear gimble? Sure..just check that box there, Mr. Customer."
-   "A lock ring on the a.o.? No problem..check the box right under it."
-   " Don't forget to select which reticle you'd like."
 
      A`la Cart Scopes....
 


Edited by Al Nyhus - April/21/2009 at 16:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 16:31
 You might want to give US Optics a call with that suggestion.
That's pretty much how they operate, and I doubt a Benchrest scope would be much of a stretch for them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 16:57
It seems to me that if scope manufacturers would simply offer an erector locking device like the Cecil Tucker modification (a variation of which Burris introduced as their "Posi-Lock" device), there should be no need for gluing the scopes internals, removing the knobs, and in the process, losing the nitrogen purge inside the scope.  The W/E adjustments on the scope could then be used and I would think good fixed mounts would be more rigid.  The erector locking device is nothing but a threaded plunger located on the opposite side of the tube and halfway between the W/E turrets that captures the erector assy against the adjustment stops, preventing erector movement.  I wouldn't think this would add much cost to the scope, as Burris proved.
 
 


Edited by RifleDude - April/21/2009 at 17:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 17:37
Funny you should mention the Tucker Conversion.  I just talked to Cecil Tucker today about having a scope he converted gone over again with new o-rings he adds.
 
U.S. Optics makes excellent scopes I'm sure but they don't make lightweight scopes that I'm aware of.  The 1" benchrest scopes weight 15 to 18 oz.  I'd bet U.S. Optics scopes weigh 3x that.
 
Al
Leupold has started that custom shop but the problem is they only modify current production scopes.  Not a true a la carte as it should be.  The FX III 30x is getting close but still not as good as the discontinued 1" 36br. 
 
Don't some of the non "D" model Leupolds have the locking A.O?  I'm thinking only the early BR36's didn't lock.   I'm pretty sure the majority of BR36's I've shot had the locking ring on the end of the AO. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2009 at 23:12
Impressive goodies there Al....... Thanks for sharing them and the info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Nyhus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 06:07
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 You might want to give US Optics a call with that suggestion.
That's pretty much how they operate, and I doubt a Benchrest scope would be much of a stretch for them.
 
     A good friend tried that approach a couple of years back.
 
     Forrest Gump said it best: "And that's all I'm going to say about that."  Mouth Taped Shut
"Marsupials scare me".
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