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Super Sniper Problem

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cyclops24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyclops24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2009 at 09:28
I don't know that I should post his name due to OpSec as he is still on active duty and deployed. I also have a copy of the SOP he has written for many unit's sniper platoons. He has worked with and trained the DC SWAT snipers, NY State Police Snipers and many other LE agencies. He's the real deal and I respect his opinion.
 
What are the differences between a good scope like the SS and a NF or USO scope? Is it just clarity and resolution? I assume the larger the objective the more light it can gather and thus it can be used in lower light situations. I mean if a $300 scope can hit a target at 800 meters effectively then why would I need a $2500 scope to do the same thing?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voodoo6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2009 at 16:02
Cyclops, did you try "smacking" that scope around to possibly dislodge the particles?
I had a similar issue on a US Optics SN-3 and they even recommened I try that before sending in.
Might solve the problem for you.
That SS is going to suit you.

Kudos to Chris Farris for his usual oustanding customer care.
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cyclops24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyclops24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2009 at 17:39
They don't budge. Same specks in he same location. If it is an issue with the anodizing that only effected a small batch, shaking it isn't going to resolve that. It is going to continue to flake off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voodoo6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2009 at 17:54
Your right, of course. I was just curious if they could be dislodged.
Best of luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2009 at 18:00
It takes a pretty good hit to dislodge them.
 
Try hitting the objective bell (fairly hard) on the bottom of your shoe while your shoe is on your foot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voodoo6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2009 at 18:29
I ended up sending my USO back to Cali to get fixed, but I promise you, it wasn't for a lack of effort. I beat the bejeebers out it before I gave up.
I ended up setting a Charlotte city phone book on top of a steel framed table and beat the snot out of the obj. housing.
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cyclops24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyclops24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2009 at 19:39
Scope is already in the mail. But I wouldn't have thought to smack it that hard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 07:18
Originally posted by cyclops24 cyclops24 wrote:

Scope is already in the mail. But I wouldn't have thought to smack it that hard.
 
The Super Snipers are Crazy Tuff.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 08:47
Originally posted by cyclops24 cyclops24 wrote:

I don't know that I should post his name due to OpSec as he is still on active duty and deployed. I also have a copy of the SOP he has written for many unit's sniper platoons. He has worked with and trained the DC SWAT snipers, NY State Police Snipers and many other LE agencies. He's the real deal and I respect his opinion.
 
What are the differences between a good scope like the SS and a NF or USO scope? Is it just clarity and resolution? I assume the larger the objective the more light it can gather and thus it can be used in lower light situations. I mean if a $300 scope can hit a target at 800 meters effectively then why would I need a $2500 scope to do the same thing?
 


better glass quality
better lens coatings
better low-light performance
more options



First and foremost, Super Snipers are entirely serviceable scopes, they are seeing action in Iraq and Afghanistan and are performing well.

Good scope, good price.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - April/06/2009 at 07:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 09:44
I have seen 5 super snipers do a box test now (I will be testing mine soon).  And each one of them done just as good as the Night Force, Leupold, and IOR scopes, meaning they passed it perfectly.  The one I saw do the box test last weekend was completely perfect in the box test.  The guy shooting was a very good shooter and the adjustments hit the marks on the target right on.  I think the main downside to them is the glass quality is not as good as some of the other really high end scopes, but even then it is pretty darn good.  All the parts in them are built to mil specifications, so they are going to be crazy durable and precise.

The only reason they are cheaper is because Chris has them made directly for him.  It does not have to go through 5 or 6 middle men who each take a cut out of it causing the price to be jacked up.  Otherwise it would be a $1000 to $1200 scope just like a some of the higher end scopes.  I honestly think the glass is very close to Leupold MK4 glass.  At least during the day time.  I have never had the chance to compare them in low light, so my opinion might change some if I get the chance.  

Actually the instructors at the school I go to say they have seen quite a few Night Force scopes not be able to pass the box test.  They say the Super Snipers have performed way better that way.  They actually don't recommended Night Force scopes for that reason.
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 09:57
Buy Supersniper, good scope, good price.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - April/06/2009 at 07:52
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supertool73 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 10:20
First off I was not trying to call you out, sorry if it came off that way not my intention.  Yes we are just doing 100 yards tests.  One of these days I will put mine on my .308 and do a box test next to my IOR at 500.  Never done one that far, only to 200 for me.  Also I never meant they were $2000 scopes either, and I agree there are better choices for precision rifles.  To quote Chris directly from an article he wrote. from 2004
Quote Affordability
By far the best and worst thing about the Super Sniper. Its low retail price often hinders its ability to be taken seriously. Original contract price was pushing $1,000.00. when we bought a large number from the original contract over run at a close-out price. When we decided to have the Super Sniper scopes made exclusively for us we had already established a market value and knew that we would have to be able to buy them at the same close out price in order to offer them to the public at the same close out price from the original deal. This was only possible for the following reasons; cost of production was greatly reduced because of the number of units made, scopes are not sold from factory to designer to distributor to dealer to public, and we did not have the overhead associated with designing and building this scope (Taco did).

You would be surprised if you knew what a $1000.00 Leupold cost once you stripped away the over head, four levels of mark up, reps commission, catalog/advertising, r&d, etc. Basically that is why the Super Sniper scopes are so affordable and compare favorably to $1000. scopes because they really are $1000. scopes in disguise.

http://www.swfa.com/ss_review_sniper_paradise.aspx

The School is Front Sight.  The head instructors are ex military.  A few  of them were scout snipers.  Not saying they are the greatest, but they do know their stuff and have a lot of experience.  They teach 3 or 4 precision classes each year and 15 or more other types of rifle classes per year.  So they get a lot of opportunities to try out a lot of gear and see how it holds up.  The only complaint they have ever had of a Super Sniper is some of the turrets themselves have come loose.  But other than that they say they have been very precise and durable. 

They are instructing civialians, LE and military.  Basically who ever passes the prerequisite class and wants to take the class. 

2 guys have been instructing the precision classes for the last 5 or so years and they say they have seen more of the Night Force scopes fail in those classes than any other precision scope.  I agree that I have always heard different, but I take what they say about stuff like that with pretty good confidence as they do get to see a lot of gear.  Mr. Barnsness has seen similar results with all the Night Forces he has tested as well.  So I don't think they are any more special than any other scope.  They have great ones and bad ones just like everyone else.

Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 10:36
I agree with the quote, it is a great value.


I'll disagree with your instructors (and accept that at 100 yards the NF and SS compared well - as they should.)  Everyone has differing experiences.

I know Nightforce has military contracts (as does SS.)  I know walking the line at Camp Perry shows just how many Nightforces are on competitive guns, and how many are winning competitive shoots, tactical and non.

To each, his own.
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supertool73 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 12:33
Its not really a matter of disagreeing with them, its just a fact that Nightforce's can fail as well.  In there particular case it's just a higher ratio.
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 15:19
Everything fails, I definitely agree with that; however, my experience and those I know is the opposite of what your Front Site guys say.  That said, it ain't impossible for experiences to vary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 15:24
Very true.  Those guys swear buy Leupold, they say that have yet to have one fail the box test in a class.  But I have heard of a fair amount of failures with them as well.  I guess a person just buys one that has a pretty good rep and hopes for the best.

Edited by supertool73 - April/08/2009 at 09:29
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 18:07
"swear buy Leupold": Freudian slip?
Freedom is something you take.
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supertool73 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 18:18
Oh boy, no your going to act like a two year old again and become the spelling police.  This never gets old.  Whatever
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 18:27
Again?  When did I stop?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2009 at 19:36
I've been a fan of the Supersniper since they were sold to the Navy by Hoffman Enterprises, a woman owned set aside, and I payed full ride for a $799.00 scope that now sells for $399.99.  The scopes are still worth the original $800.00 asking price..by any standard one would care to establish, espessially given the current crop of optics on the market.  I've even owned one that had speckles in it.  Couple brutal raps on the porch railing and the specs fell off the glass.  Still running that scope..used bondo and paint to repair the railing.
 
If you lined up a couple dozen Army snipers, and a couple dozen Marine snipers and had them trade gear, by the end of the day the Army guys would tell you there was nothing better than the Marine issue gear, and the Marines would say the same about the Army gear.  Neither group has any real experience with a broad range of equipment, mostly the stuff they're issued and told to be good with.  Shot with enough of these gentlemen (still do) ( no AirForce female shooters yet.......darnit) to find that out.
If you cut apart a 10X M series Supersniper you'd truely be amazed at the quality of parts and assembly, these scopes are tough enough to survive years continuous duty in Afganistan without return for refurbishment, and they survive on the M14 DMR rifle, one of which has eaten my Leupold MkIV M3 on three different occasions.  We're talking an issue of 200 units riding on Sadlak mounts and still holding zero.  After abuse like these things see, I'd be lucky to hold my bladder.
If you compare the original unit with todays offering, you'll see that as good as the originals are, with input from Chris Farris the new units have greatly improved coatings, glass, and even more durable construction.  I'm fully aware of all the things he's done to improve an already ultra reliable piece of glass.
 
Folks ask me how tough these are, and in times past I'd remove the Supersniper and rings from the rifle, kick it down range(literally), staple up a target,kick it all the way back and shoot a group.  Kick it down range and repeat, and son of a gun, two groups identical in size and within 1/2 moa of point of aim, which is the manufacturers garauntee for that particular ring and base combination.
I've also just thrown the entire rifle/scope assembly all the way downrange and back with no ill result but that's just plain mean and it freaks people out.
 
I've seen some other scopes like the ones cited here, merely dropped to semi hard dirt when the rifle fell over off the stand, and loose zero.  Never seen a SuperSniper do that and I've worked comps and challenged folks to do the same things I do with their scopes for almost a decade and suddenly the claims of robust construction by owners of XYZ maker go silent.
 
As to box drills, I'd think that 500 yards would be handicapped for several reasons, 1st being lack of meaningful movement of the internals at that distance.  Another is wind, yet another mirage.  Proximity proves the optic, distance proves the shooter.
 
Do the box test at 25 yards maximum distance and you will force the scope to travel 4x as much per adjustment as you would with a 100 yard test, and almost 50 times as much as a 500 yard test.  At 25 yards in addition to the above, if the final return to zero shot isn't the same bullet hole than you have a scope problem.  At increased distance you're trying to average too many variables and the test is only of value when performed by a top level shooter.
 
Pricing is subjective, and in the optics market it's a price fixing scheme in some cases.  You pay so much more than that prize optic cost to manufacture, an example is one "name brand" has a scope selling for about $1400.00 in round figures, yet total cost to put into the box and ship is under $200.00 per unit.  Another mfg tells their dealers that the optic WILL sell for X amount.  Cut that price and you're not a dealer any more.  Another limits availability, a lesson learned from the diamond cartel.  If you ordered X number of units last month, you won't get X more until it's deemed to be your turn. 
Value of an optic based soley upon price is an illusion too many fall for.  That Accura Legend is still just a Honda Civic with seat warmers.
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