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Best all around fixed power?

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jonoMT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 07:16
My last two scopes were fixed power (a 2.5X and a 4X) and I thought they were great for shots out to MPBR (which is ~300 yards for my .308 loads). But I have moved to a 2.5-10X variable for the ability to shoot in close cover (as with the elk I took at 35 yards this last season) or out to 600 yards. If all your shooting is going to be out past 200, then a 10X Super Sniper would be great. But it seems like the 6X and under options will provide too little magnification out past 400 yards and require expensive modification to get target turrets. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 07:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 07:32

huff143,

I don't think they do. At least I haven't heard anything about that--yet.

On the other hand, 6x scopes tend to transmit more light than variables set on 6x, because they have fewer lenses. My guess (based on some experience) is that a 6x42 FX-III would be just as bright as a VX-3 3.5-10x40 set on 6x.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 07:39
Isn't the FX III still a 3 piece tube?  I'm sorry I love my Leupy's but I disregard any offering that doesn't have a 1 piece main tube.  Call me a gear snob but that's one of my requirements.  A $50 Tasco has a 1 piece tube.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 07:43
I'm going to interject a different proposition.  You said you wanted to TRY a fixed power scope.  Pentax Gameseeker makes both a 4x and a 6x and I would bet you could get either one for under $100.  I have the 4x mounted on my .458 Lott, it has over 200 rounds on it, and it tracks as well as any scope I have.  Glass is quite good, I've hog hunted at night with it.  It does not have target knobs, don't know if you can get them, but it does have finger adjustable az/el.  It would be a great scope to experiment with until you decide whether you like/want fixed power.Then you can get a "better" scope if you want one.  I replaced a Schmidt and Bender with Pentax...
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silver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 07:52
Huff,
 
I think you have to ask yourself a very basic question... Which is more important "Low light performance or knobs to play with?" Do you want to give up a great buck at dusk or dawn to play with knobs? One takes you one direction and the other takes you in a new direction.
 
The next thing is what should you really expect for 500 dollars? You can only do so much, and well, for the money. What you are really NOW describing is a Zeiss tactical scope; that costs extra.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 09:38
Originally posted by silver silver wrote:



"Low light performance or knobs to play with?"



Well, if you're going to play with the knobs when the lights go low, you'd better be up for the performance...Oops, wrong forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huff143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 09:41
Originally posted by silver silver wrote:

Huff,
 
I think you have to ask yourself a very basic question... Which is more important "Low light performance or knobs to play with?" Do you want to give up a great buck at dusk or dawn to play with knobs? One takes you one direction and the other takes you in a new direction.
 
The next thing is what should you really expect for 500 dollars? You can only do so much, and well, for the money. What you are really NOW describing is a Zeiss tactical scope; that costs extra.
 
Silver 
 
I DO want good performance at dawn and dusk.  I realize I probably can't get great performance at dawn and dusk without shelling out some serious coin. 
A scope with good lowlight capabilities and great tracking is what I really need, because I much prefer to use my rangefinder and make adjustments than employ holdover.  If Super Sniper made a fixed 6x or 8x I'd already have one.....dangit!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 09:41
HA!
 
Yes, the FX-111 has a one-piece tube.
 
The truth is, though, that if well-made a 3-piece tube is just as strong. But most people don't want to believe that, the reason so many companies make 1-piece tubes these days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 11:08
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

HA!
 
Yes, the FX-111 has a one-piece tube.
 
The truth is, though, that if well-made a 3-piece tube is just as strong. But most people don't want to believe that, the reason so many companies make 1-piece tubes these days.
 
If you say so.  My big hang up is extra places for it to leak.  Is there any reason for a multi-piece tube other than cost of manufacturing?  I don't see one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 11:20
Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

HA!
 
Yes, the FX-111 has a one-piece tube.
 
The truth is, though, that if well-made a 3-piece tube is just as strong. But most people don't want to believe that, the reason so many companies make 1-piece tubes these days.
 
If you say so.  My big hang up is extra places for it to leak.  Is there any reason for a multi-piece tube other than cost of manufacturing?  I don't see one.

i also agree with that, not saying it wouldnt be stronger, but yes it does leave more seems to fail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 11:31
In almost 20 years of testing scopes by dunking them in hot water, not a single multi-piece scope has ever leaked where the tube and bells were put together. They have all leaked from the adjustment turrets, the magnification-change ring, or (very rarely) from around a lens.
 
Multi-piece tubes in better scopes were put together with very fine threads, and something on the threads. But, again, so many people believe that one-piece tubes are far superior (and advertising claim made by the first company to make one-piece tubes) that most companies were forced to follow suit, even though it cost more to make them, and there was no advantage either in leakage or strength.
 
These days one-piece tubes are less expensive to make than they were way back when, because of CNC machinery. In fact a couple of years ago I watched a CNC machine the size of the average "great room" in a McMansion spit out one-piece tubes every 14 seconds. That was at the Leupold factory. The same CNC machines are the reason Leupold can sell Rifleman 3-9x scopes for the same basic price as they sold VX-II's 25 years ago. The optics and just about everything in the two scopes are just about the same. It's hard to imagine many other things that cost the same as they did 20 years ago....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 11:39
About 5 years ago I got a rare tour of the Burris factory in Greeley Co.  I watched them lathe the tube and body of a Signature scope.  It was impressive.  What started looking like a baseball bat of solid aluminum billet ended up as the tube.  There was a pile of aluminum shavings 2' tall under the lathe.  Not a very efficient use of materials but it looked VERY strong.  I believe I was told they leave the walls thicker than most other brands. 
 
Anyway I remember being impressed how strong that tube seemed.  True or not that seemed the proper way to manufacture a scope in my mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 11:39
it seems logically simple to me to have one single piece as opposed to more than one piece. its just like when we lay pipe underground, the less amount of "joints" we have in the line the better, more accessories is just more things to go wrong. which i guess can really make a good selling point for fixed power scopes as well.

am i off in left field with the keep it simple stupid theory??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 11:51
Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

About 5 years ago I got a rare tour of the Burris factory in Greeley Co.  I watched them lathe the tube and body of a Signature scope.  It was impressive.  What started looking like a baseball bat of solid aluminum billet ended up as the tube.  There was a pile of aluminum shavings 2' tall under the lathe.  Not a very efficient use of materials but it looked VERY strong.  I believe I was told they leave the walls thicker than most other brands. 
 
Anyway I remember being impressed how strong that tube seemed.  True or not that seemed the proper way to manufacture a scope in my mind.
 
Well, the original Burris scopes were multi-piece tubes, as were the old Redfields and Leupolds of the sixties...............it's a non-issue......it's an advertising thing.   Bandito
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 11:56
Fixed power scopes are somewhat more reliable than variables, those these days the difference isn't as big as it used to be.
 
Leupold ran a bunch of tests on 3-piece vs. 1-piece scope tubes, and found that actually the 3-piece tubes were a little stronger, because the threaded areas had two layers of aluminum that helped prevent them from bending. A foot-long scope is a little different than big pipes laid underground.
 
But there is no real point in debating all that anymore, since every one of the better-brand scopes made (anything from about $200 up, I'd guess) is a 1-piece, just because of how customers instinctively feel about such things.
 
I will also note that I have been using Leupold 6x scopes since before they were even multi-coated, and have yet to be unable to aim at any big game animal, including whitetails taken in the woods at the limits of legal light, and pigs shot at night. I have also run my brightness tests with various 6x scopes, and have found that some of those mentioned as being "brighter" than the present-day (or even previous) Leupolds 6x scope aren't. I don't think Leupold is the only company that makes a good 6x scope (I have a bunch of different 6x's) but for the budget of the original poster, it would be hard to find one better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 12:38

I used both the Leupold,Redfield and Sightron fixed 6 power scopes.The Sightron was brighter & clearer.I got rid of the Leupold and Redfield.Traded the Sightron.I prefer the variables,the newer scopes are made better.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 21:06
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Originally posted by silver silver wrote:



"Low light performance or knobs to play with?"



Well, if you're going to play with the knobs when the lights go low, you'd better be up for the performance...Oops, wrong forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquajoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2009 at 12:19
Sorry, don't mean to hijack a thread here, but I'm also considering a fixed power scope for my AR15. I would really like a variable, but can't afford the most important option I want which is side focus/parallax adjustment. Most of my shooting will be 25-200 yards. This will be a family rifle (under 10 years old) so I'll need some flexibility. What's y'all's opinion on the IOR Valdada 6X fixed power?

-joe

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2009 at 12:48
I don't have experience with the IOR.
The 6x42 Leupold that has been mentioned is a great scope. The one I have has been on several different rifles. It stacks up very well against some far more expensive Kahles scopes I have. This may be due to the fact it is fixed and has less lenses. Like some other Leupold models that have been around, it may just be a winner. I think it is a bit of both.
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