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Additional notes on "brightness" testing

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John Barsness View Drop Down
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    Posted: March/09/2009 at 20:27

Thought I'd add a few things:

1) The lenses must be CLEAN. This may seem obvious, but this means right to the edges of the lenses. If there's dust around the edges, this will not only affect brightness but apparent sharpness, especially toward the edges. The very first Swarovski scope I ever saw belonged to a Louisiana whitetail hunter who I shared an Alabama hunting camp with over 20 years ago. He bragged so much on his expensive, big scope that I had to take a look though it. The view was quite dim, because the lenses were covered with a layer of dust. (Despite that, he killed every deer he shot at.)
 
2) The fairest test is between new scopes. Even one year of use can result in a degradation of the coatings, especially in "field" conditions. Normal, correct cleaning will cause some light scatter with most lens coatings after a while. I recently tested a brand new Phillipines model 3-9x Burris Fullfield II against an older model American FFII, and the Phillipines model was noticeably brighter during my standard chart/darkness test. Was this because the older scope had been used hard for several years? I dunno. The only way to make sure woud be to test a brand-new scope from several years ago, against the new Phillipines FFII. Maybe some of the newer hard coatings would help, but again, the onl;y way to know would be to set one aside, in the box, for a couple of years and compare it to an indentical but well-used scope.
 
3) In general I have found the reticle to be more important than the optics, given modern multiu-coating throughout the lens system. The thing we really want to do with a scope is aim. If we can see the target but not the reticle, then we are SOL.
 
JB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 20:34
Hence my affection for the FireFly reticle. If you can't see that reticle you need to stop hunting cause it's way past bedtime
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relentless Pursuit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 20:40
I eagerly await the newest coatings to unveil,so I can greedily scoop secondhand the "inferior" versions..................(grin)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 20:41
  Only my first season with it but the Heavy Duplex in my VXIII is becoming a favorite. So far it's been GOOD in low light and thick foliage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relentless Pursuit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 20:45
There are few reticles I hate more than it...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 20:53
Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

  Only my first season with it but the Heavy Duplex in my VXIII is becoming a favorite. So far it's been GOOD in low light and thick foliage.
 
Have you compared that to the etched Boone & Crockett?  I'd be interested to see both at dusk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 20:56
Relentless Pursuit,
 
I am sure most of us would like to hear the specific reasons for your dislike. That's how we gain perspective on these threads.
 
Thanks,
JB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 21:03
  Sorry,but no I haven't Hm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 21:05

 That's why they make so many different reticles,RP.  Different strokes for different folks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 21:21
The reason I ask is I've seen a lot of the B&C reticles in the VXIII discount piles.  There's a bunch on the samplelist.  I've looked through them before and I know they're a fairly heavy reticle.  Just wondering how it stacks up to the heavy ret.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 22:34
  I'll get the sub tension reticle specs on both and post them for you Hm. Might help ya.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relentless Pursuit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 04:03
The Hvy is obtrusive and mires business. I have them in 2.5X Compact,6x42 and 3.5-10x and it is a junk reticle for killing.
 
Couldn't formulate anything redeeming in the reticle's regard......................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farscott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 07:09
Quote Even one year of use can result in a degradation of the coatings, especially in "field" conditions.
What does this imply for those of us who use scopes for years?  I always thought my eyes were getting worse, not my scopes were transmitting less light.  Yikes, now I know it is both.

I guess I have a new reason to upgrade some of my optics.
Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 07:13
Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

  Only my first season with it but the Heavy Duplex in my VXIII is becoming a favorite. So far it's been GOOD in low light and thick foliage.
 
I like the heavier duplex in my 3200 for exactly the scenario you mentioned 300.  Typical ranges where we hunt are short and the reticle is very easy to pickout against a dark background or when swinging on a moving target.
 
Doesn't seem obtrusive in this application.
 
JB.  Wonder if one of the reasons for the dimmer image in the older scope is light scattering from minute scatches in the lens coatings.  No matter how carefully you clean these will happen over time.
God save the Empire!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 07:59
  Sorry H,ain't been able to find reticle subtension info for the B&C reticle anywhere. I hope this may give you and idea of how the Hvy Plex and B&C compare :
  Click on Specifications and you'll see the B&C and Heavy Duplex side by side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 10:06
Dogger, that's exactly it, tiny scratches scattering light.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 10:10
Relenteless Pursuit,
 
"Mires business"? I was hoping for something more specific. I have shot a pile of big game with Heavy Duplexes, with both 2.5x and 6x scopes. Some was at fair distances, around 350 yards. I have yet to feel mired. But then, as somebody already noted, that's why Leupold offers different reticles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 10:54
agreed, gotta test with clean glass or it's not a valid test

and also agree with the reticle comments
great glass with an ultra thin target reticle that disappears in low light is a useless scope
I am fond of etched reticles in a good #4, love the Kahles CL for those reasons (along with great glass)

I had 2 of the Kahles CL 3-10x50, one with a #4 and one with the standard plex
accidentally won both on Ebay at the same time, kept the #4 and all my subsequent scopes have been a #4

I don't like combat/ranging reticles as they obscure too much of the target for me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relentless Pursuit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 11:00
John,
 
I've killed alotta stuff,with alotta stuff.
 
The 6x42 remains my favorite glass and with standard duplex,it'll get a guy to 1K on critters,if one is inclined.
 
Fenceposts for stadia lines,do not aid crosshair intersection aquisitions................... 
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John Barsness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 15:53
Well, there you are. You can provide actual details if pressed.
 
I also shoot quite a bit to 1000 yards (and on occasion even farther) but all on targets and varmints. I wouldn't use a Heavy Duplex for that shooting either.
 
But like many, I have no desire to try to plunk a deer at vast ranges, for various reasons--and see no reason at all to do it on something like a Cape buffalo. One reason is probably that my hunting mentors taught me that part of hunting is getting closer--in other words, stalking. For a lot of my big game hunting, then, a Heavy Duplex works very well.
 
 
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