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Sako 85 Design |
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timber
Optics Journeyman
Joined: June/03/2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 351 |
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Topic: Sako 85 DesignPosted: February/25/2009 at 23:36 |
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In another thread someone mentioned there may be a redesign of the Sako 85 in the works. I'm wondering if maybe it's more because Sako is promoting the newer A-7? I hope that's not the case because I'm a fan of the 85 even though there are a couple of things I don't like, the stingy buttstock and hard recoil pad and the dovetail receiver.
I also don't like the very small recoil lug even though it's an interesting design. The picture of the receiver on the left shows a small and shallow "nub" that mates with a metal plate screwed into the stock shown again on the left. If everything fits perfectly flush and is approriately torqued down it's fine but I'd be happier with the lug shown on the receiver on the right. The article explains it further. If Sako is making some changes to the 85 maybe this will be one? http://www.gunsandhunting.com/Dethroned.html ![]() ![]() |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
Optics Jedi Knight
Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Online Status: Offline Posts: 5879 |
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Posted: February/26/2009 at 00:07 |
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I have been looking at the new Sako A7 that has intigral picatinny rails. Nice have no idea what the recoil lug looks like though and dont find info on it on the SAKO site. |
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RifleDude
Optics Jedi Knight
Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 6108 |
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Posted: February/26/2009 at 17:57 |
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The A7 is nothing more than the old M75 receiver with the same recoil lug as the M75 used (the top action in the above photo). The difference between the A7 and M75 receivers is the M75 has the integral tapered scope mount grooves and serrations on top of the receiver, while the A7 has traditional screw-on (not integral) bases like Rem 700, Savage, Browning, etc. It comes with picatinny bases already installed, which is why it looks like they are integral.
The other differences between the A7 and M75 is the A7 comes only with a synthetic stock (at least at present), A7's magazine is mostly plastic, A7 has the "Total Control" magazine latch of the M85, A7's bolt shroud is less "stylized" than M75 and M85, A7 has larger diameter bolt than 75/85, A7 has spring plunger ejector vs. standing blade ejector of 75/85.
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Ted
You can tell a lot about a fellow's character by his way of eating jellybeans. -- Ronald Reagan |
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timber
Optics Journeyman
Joined: June/03/2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 351 |
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Posted: February/26/2009 at 19:40 |
Have you handled one yet? Maybe they'll do a wood version with a metal magazine and call it the 'new' 85? I'd like one if only for the new scope bases. Can you tell us more about the larger bolt? |
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loaded4bear
Optics Apprentice
Joined: January/06/2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 87 |
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Posted: February/27/2009 at 09:37 |
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Timber, I handled the A7 at Cabelas last month and I actually like the looks of the Tikka better even though I'm not a big fan of all that plastic. I really don't understand the marketing angle Beretta is trying here because the A7 has just as much plastic as the Tikka and it cost alot more money. The A7 comes with a 5 shot MOA compared to a 3 shot MOA with the Tikka but is it worth the difference? For a few bucks more I rather get a used 75 or a new 85 if possible. According to Cabelas, A7 sales are even worse than the 85's and they can't order anymore 85's. I also noticed on gunbroker that the new 85's attract very little interest but left over or hardly used 75's are always getting bids. So IMO, I think the 85 as we know it today is history.
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timber
Optics Journeyman
Joined: June/03/2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 351 |
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Posted: February/27/2009 at 14:26 |
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Thanks for the Cabelas information. It verifies what I've seen with other sellers. I knew something was up when I saw fewer available calibers availble for the 85 on a couple of Internet sellers. Not only are some shooters not liking the 85's design it could also be a function of price in this economy. BassPro tells me price is influencing sales to a larger degree than usual which makes sense.
My BassPro doesn't have any A7's so all I can say is what I've read. Field and Stream or Outdoor Life did a big review of the new rifleas and the A7 came in around the middle. I'm not saying they're the ultimate arbitor on these things but they did say it had allot of plastic and the action was a little stiff in cocking. I experienced this with my 85 and got used to 'hitting' the bolt handle to cock it after firing. To be fair it has gotten a little easier after much shooting and the rest of the bolt movement is ultra smooth. Are you listening Beretta? From this one shooter's opinion I like allot of the 85 but I wish the dovetail receiver would disappear! Change it to a Weaver style like the Icon or just tap holes in it like everybody else! |
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RifleDude
Optics Jedi Knight
Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 6108 |
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Posted: February/27/2009 at 16:30 |
For whatever reason, Sako decided to increase the diameter of the A7's bolt body over the 75 & 85. I don't know the reason, but it otherwise uses the same 3 lug design of the other two. Maybe it has something to do with needing to provide additional room for the hole to accept the spring and button of the plunger style ejector.
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Ted
You can tell a lot about a fellow's character by his way of eating jellybeans. -- Ronald Reagan |
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RifleDude
Optics Jedi Knight
Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 6108 |
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Posted: February/27/2009 at 16:46 |
I don't understand the lack of appeal for the 85 vs. the 75. Other than the stock style, there isn't a huge difference between the 2 rifles from a design standpoint. The 85 adds a few minor enhancements to the 75 design. The recoil lug is hidden from view, and despite it's rather wierd approach, it's a non-issue. I actually prefer the more classic style stock on the wood stocked 85's over the 75 stock. The latest 85's seem to come with a higher grade of wood than the 75 as well.
As for the stiffer bolt lift on cocking, this is the tradeoff you get with any short bolt throw, 3-, 6-, and 9-lug actions. Because of the 120-deg centers lug orientation and corresponding short bolt lift, the cocking cam out of necessity has to be steeper than the cam used on a 2 lug action. Therefore, it requires more effort to cock. Unless you use a longer bolt handle or some sort of roller cocking piece engagement with the cocking cam, this is unavoidable.
As for the dovetail receiver, I agree it's a pain. However, the problem is not with the design itself, which is a good idea, but the fact that for whatever reason, not as many scope mount manufacturers offer good mount solutions for it, and the Sako Opti-Loks leave a lot to be desired. Again, the A7 does use the tapped holes, not because of any superiority of that mounting method (as it's actually weaker than the dovetail grooves), but because it's cheaper to manufacture.
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Ted
You can tell a lot about a fellow's character by his way of eating jellybeans. -- Ronald Reagan |
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timber
Optics Journeyman
Joined: June/03/2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 351 |
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Posted: February/27/2009 at 20:56 |
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I agree with much of what you've said RifleDude. There are minor improvements in the 85 design and yes I do like the straight stock over the Monte Carlo even though the proportions seem backward - a fat forearm and a smaller buttstock.
I understand the engineering/mechanics of the shorter lift but my 75 (edit: also had a Tikka that cocked easier) seemed easier to cock. Perhaps my 85 is not typical and has something a little out of whack? I don't know. A 1/2" longer bolt handle would help with leverage. Or maybe some internal change to the mechanics. You're absolutely spot-on with your analysis of the dovetail receiver. There's probably not enough demand for other manufacturers to design and produce more and different bases. It's too bad but that's the reality. Sako should either dump the Opti-Lok (and it's soft screws - I had that bad experience!) or do it right or dump the dovetail altogether. I like integral styles but something more common with industry standards like Weaver. Otherwise, tap the holes. EDIT: BerettaUSA no longer has the Hunter 85 or Stainless Synthetic 85 on their website. Edited by timber - February/27/2009 at 21:05 |
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loaded4bear
Optics Apprentice
Joined: January/06/2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 87 |
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Posted: February/27/2009 at 22:40 |
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The stock design on the 85 seems to be the major complaint from what I've heard and read on various forms. I prefer the 75 style myself, not necessarily because of its monte carlo shape but mainly because the butt end is larger and less narrow than the 85. The 75 just seemed to shoulder better for me. |
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timber
Optics Journeyman
Joined: June/03/2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 351 |
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Posted: February/28/2009 at 01:12 |
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loaded4bear - "because the butt end is larger and less narrow than the 85"
Agree, agree, agree, agree, agree.................................agree! I agree. This trend to "trimmer" stocks is fine except the butt. What are they thinking? Screw a muzzle brake on everything? |
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loaded4bear
Optics Apprentice
Joined: January/06/2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 87 |
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Posted: February/28/2009 at 09:53 |
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Muzzle brake for everything may be next!
Maybe this deserves a separate post but whats up with the stock on the Rem. 700 LR Tactical? Does this cut-out notch serve some sought of purpose? Sounds like a nice rifle except for the lookshttp://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_XCR_tactical_long_range.asp
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