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New scope: Leupold VX-3 or Swarovski AV |
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LSUSPY
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/12/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: February/12/2009 at 23:08 |
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Greetings Gentlemen, First off I just want to say this is an outstanding forum. I located it a couple of weeks ago and I am addicted! I need a scope for a new rifle project. The rifle is a Remington m700 SPS in .308 with a 21” barrel. I will probably hunt with this setup for a season or two before I send it to the gunsmith. Ultimately it will end up in a Leupold VX-3 3.5-10 x 40 (plex) or Swarovski AV 3-10 x 42 (plex or 4A) I look forward to your input. Thanks! |
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"To kill you must know your enemy. In this case my enemy is a varmint. And a varmint will never quit...ever. They're like the Viet Cong...Varmint Cong..."
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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Well naturally the S is the better glass but the L has advantages in reticle options. Right now there are some great bargains on VX3 on samplelist. I really like the 4.5-14 personally.
naturally the ones that are not illuminated are less.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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donlipa
Optics Apprentice Joined: August/18/2008 Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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The Swarovski is a sweet scope. I would take it over a VX-3 any day.
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I'm just another internet blowhard with too much time on my hands for the past couple weeks so take my comments with a grain of salt
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huff143
Optics Journeyman Joined: December/08/2008 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 304 |
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I'm with Wes on this one. The Swaro is better glass, but I'm not sure it'll make you actually shoot $500 better than the Leupy on the Sample List. I'd take the extra cash and put it toward customizing your rifle.
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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These are very different scopes in very different price ranges. A bit of an apples to oranges comparison. If you can afford a Swaro, go with the AV with 4a reticle. If you can't afford a Swaro, Leupold is a good choice (along with a host of other similarly priced scopes).
ILya |
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mike650
Optics God Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14569 |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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SAKO75
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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zeiss conquest better than both
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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take em!
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Opinions differ. I think COnquest fits right between Swaro AV and Leupold VX-III.
ILya |
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mike650
Optics God Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14569 |
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+1 |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Optically, yes. In terms of mechanical durability, there's some anecdotal evidence suggesting the exact reverse in 1st - 3rd place may be true. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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LSUSPY, welcome to Optics Talk and I'm lovin your sigline!!
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Now, that would depend on whose anecdotal evidence it is, right? If I were to trust only my personal anecdotal evidence, I would proclaim Leupold the least reliable of all quality brands. I think that is the essence of the word "anecdotal". Or how about Nikon Monarhc scopes? Mark swears that they are the toughest things since he put away his sledgehammer, but John B has had two or three go belly up. WHose anecdotal evidence do you believe? I do not have an answer to that. ILya |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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FWIW - I've been wanting to get a Swaro 3-9X36 AV real bad and the information that has come to light recently has NOT changed my mind.
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take em!
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Horsemany
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2008 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 643 |
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I would think the volume of Leupold products(many of which are NOT their upper end offerings) that are out in use in this country and performing reliably speaks for itself. That is.... evidence. But your point is valid. Any one person's experience is a small slice of reality that we should all store in our mental files to form a broad opinion based on the knowledge of many. This should reduce the effect of personal bias as well.
For what it's worth I've been shooting competitively with Leupold's and Monarch's without a problem for a while now. The sport of benchrest was formed mostly on the dependabilty and tracking of Leupold scopes. They still top a large percentage of guns at the matches I attend. This is precisely the crowd who has little room for equipment that doesn't perform as intended.
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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Good post's, Gentleman. The more I learn about optics, the less that I really know based on my bias and limited personal experience.
(I will meditate upon these profound thruths as I split firewood today.)
PEaCe unto you all.......
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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As an owner of a Swaro AV and a few Conquests, there is no doubt the optical advantage goes to Swaro.
As to mechanical reliability, all mine, Swaro and Zeiss, have been fine. I will agree with ILya that, with my experience, Leupold does break allot, but as a consolation prize, they do have great Customer Service, I am told. If this is a gun that will eventually go to a smith and ride in a McMillan stock, you seem on the path for maximum utility at whatever the cost needs to be. if that is accurate (no pun intended), get the Swaro, it is indeed far beyond the Leupold and distinctly better than the Conquest. And it damn sure better be, given the price differential. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Gentleman, since it looks like my point was somewhat lost in the thread I would to clarify.
This is exactly what I meant: -I believe both Leupold and Swarovski to be reliable brands. -The fact that that different people have occasionaly had less that satisfactory reliability from these brands over the years does not have enough statistical evidence to accuse either brand of having poor quality control. ILya |
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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I understood you perfectly the first time and I agree with you 100%.
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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I agree with Koshkin's comments overall, and that is why I was careful to qualify my comments with the words "anecdotal" and "may," because I own all 3 and the only scope I've ever had fail was a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9X40 about 25 years ago. I have enthusiastically recommended the Swaro AV in the past, and recent info that has come to light has damaged my confidence in the durability of this series of scopes, so I'm more hesitant to recommend it any more. I wasn't inferring any of the 3 has poor quality control, but I have begun to question whether the Swaro AV is designed to withstand heavy recoil, based on:
1. Both Swaro and Zeiss caution against using their 1" scopes on heavy recoil rifles. Leupold says their 1" scopes are suitable for heavy kickers and does a pretty brutal recoil test on all their scopes to prove their mechanical integrity. 2. Leupold 1" variables have routinely been used on dangerous game rifles for decades, and they have a good reputation for holding up to the punishment of extremely heavy recoil among that community. 3. Multiple accounts of AV failures under heavy recoil on internet forums. 4. Comments made by prominent custom rifle builder D'Arcy Echols in a recent magazine article I read where he publicly stated that Leupolds have been the only 1" variables he's never had fail on heavy recoiling customer rifles. It's worth noting that he used to recommend Swaro AV's and doesn't anymore. Edited by RifleDude - February/15/2009 at 14:34 |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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