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MOA needed for 1000 yards |
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hunterco
Optics Apprentice Joined: March/31/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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Posted: February/07/2009 at 22:57 |
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Can someone help, I see many links requiring me to fill in detailed load info on MOA needed for 1000 yards. My scope has 52 MOA internal adjustement, with a 20 MOA base and zeroed at 100 yds, can I hit 1000??
165-175 G hpbt's 308 cal or similar
Thanks
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tjtjwdad
Optics Journeyman Joined: December/11/2007 Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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For a 308 with 175 SMK with M118 LR velocities, typically you would 42 MOA.
100-200; 2 MOA
200-300; 3 MOA
300-500; 8 MOA
500-600; 5 MOA
600-1000; 24 MOA
Total 42 MOA
HTH
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hunterco
Optics Apprentice Joined: March/31/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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so I should be fine with 52 MOA plus 20 MOA Base but it will be tight?
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Personally, I think you'll need a little more help. More info on your setup would be good.
Depends on how good your mounting is. If you get everything perfect, you should be OK, but you don't have much margin for error. Edited by Kickboxer - February/07/2009 at 23:31 |
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hunterco
Optics Apprentice Joined: March/31/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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So I have a 52 MOA Nikon Monarch X 4-16x50. This should give me 25 MOA up and 25 down. Put on a 20 MOA base and I will have 45 up with a few MOA to spare? I plan to shoot 168 gr hpbt
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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If your mount and internal adjustment is "perfect", you actually have 26 up and down after mounting, with the 20 MOA base, you should have a little margin. Maybe 7 or 8 MOA. That assumes you are pushing your 168gr hpbt at fairly standard velocity around 2650-2700fpsMV. It is less than I would like, but livable. A 25-30 MOA base with a 200yd zero would be better for long range. With a 200yd zero you would only be about 2in high at 100.
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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More info. Things like typical humidity, Altitude, Velocity. There is the easy answer which is yes you can get that far out by combining the click ups, and the holdover value for the reticles subtension at the used power range, and rezero the rifle for 200 yards. I say this because the closer you get to bottom, the less you will have adjustment for windage. Also bare in mind that depending on how well your scope zeroed windage wise, you may not even have the clicks you expect to be there. 26 up and down is dependent upon the center of the windage zero. If it is very close to being dead nuts than you will have most of your available come ups. If not, then you will not have them.
The Monarch X is a great scope, it isn't what I call long range friendly. The limited adjustment range makes the work for accomplishing long range shooting a bit more encompassing. Typically (for that scope) you would want a 25 or even a 30 moa base if you are going to be very serious about doing a fair amount of shooting at various distances on out to 1000 yards.
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An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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hunterco
Optics Apprentice Joined: March/31/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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I only have a 600yd range at my club, but I may go to the 1000yd range on the other side of town once or twice a year. our sniper match does not exceed 600yd so it is not that important to shoot at it all the time, only to be capable of it if needed..
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tjtjwdad
Optics Journeyman Joined: December/11/2007 Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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It sounds like you want a scope that will shoot a 308/7.62mm 168 BTHP from 100 to 1000 yards. Well, having been down this road, what you need is a scope with plenty of internal elevation. Otherwise, with offset bases and rings you’re going to use the full spectrum of your adjustments. In my experience, mechanical devices have a sweet spot and may not be so good on the outer fringes of adjustment, YMMV. Also, FWIW, a SMK 175 is a lot better than a 168 BTHP at 1000 yards. The 168 is good out to about 800 but after that it goes sub-sonic and array. Also, the numbers I provided are approximate (+ or -). Good luck. Jim White |
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hunterco
Optics Apprentice Joined: March/31/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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Thanks everyone, looks like I will just shoot it until it lets me down and I am forced to move in a new direction.
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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If his scope only has 50MOA of total adjustment, a 25MOA or more would be bad. Why set up a 1,000-yard gun that will only see 1,000 yards twice a year at most? Have you ever shot at 1,000 yards? I'd say keep the 20MOA base, figure out the 600-yard shot, then use the reticle to adjust for the rest. If your mounting isn't perfect and your internals aren't dead-on; with a 25 or 30MOA base, you will run out of adjustment room on the horizontal axis, which will severely limit your adjustment on the vertical. Also, scopes in the mid-price range don't do particularly well at the extremes of their adjustment range (at least that has been my experience.) It isn't what you'll want to hear, but I'd recommend a scope made more for long-range target shooting. If yours is a Monarch like the one I had, that reticle will cover allot'o target at 1,000 yards. |
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Sgt. D
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: February/20/2008 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 4525 |
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Thanks Cy and RC for pointing out scope limitations. Hunterco sounds like me as far as trying to get everything a scope or rifle has to offer, even alittle more when we can. But like you both said the Monarch is a great scope for the $ but it would not be my choice for 1K unless ofcourse it is what I had and no plans to buy another. I think what Hunterco is going to find is that beyond 600yds. He's not going be happy with consistancy. Like RC said when you go to the limits of adjustment the scope isn't going to be so reliable. That is why I am looking at a Kahles multi-zero, Tactical IOR and US Optics for my next purchase. Scopes that are built with adjustment in mind.
Hunterco by all means start with the Monarch and see what you can get out of it. I'd really like to know what you can get in consistant range adjustment. Then if in fact you find that you need something else you will still be sharp and on track concerning shooting discipline and how much adjustment to look for in a new scope. Good luck and let us know how things go.
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Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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tjtjwdad
Optics Journeyman Joined: December/11/2007 Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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To all,
One reason I'm familiar with what hunterco desires is because I tried it with a Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x44 (dot reticle). Nice scope, but it's not going to make him happy if he wants to go to far beyond 600 yards with a 308. Its a nice scope but I'm afraid its not going to do what he desires. Now, if he had a 22-250, 220 Swift, 243 Winchester or say a 260 Remington (all will shoot from a 308 bolt head) then it may have enough adjustment to accomodate 100 to 1000 yds of shooting for him.
Another case he's going to be disappointed is with the 168 SMK @ 1000 yds. Just not enough horsepower to get it there from a 308 and stay super-sonic.
Been there, done that....
HTH
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other
An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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Did you ever try any 155gr. Lapua Scenar's out to 1000?
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tjtjwdad
Optics Journeyman Joined: December/11/2007 Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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cheaptrick,
I never tried the Lapua 155 but I did try the Sierra Palma 155 in a M14 @ 1000 yds with open sights. I shot a 190-5x with it using push/pull ball ammo. I feel with attention to cases, primers etc... it would do quite well. I did check run-out and I only used those with .001 or less.
I felt it was more luck than anything else because (at 1000 yds) the rear sight is so far in the air it gets tough with sight alignment because the apature is not perfectly round at that point.
For those who have never tried 1000 yd shooting with a M1 or M14 you're in for a treat. Frustrating? Yeah, but it beats a day doing yard work anytime.
Jim
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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I have a USO listed on teh "optics for sale" forum, just in case you feel the need. It is a great scope for 1,000+ yard shots and can go from 100 yard zero to 1,000 shot with less than one full revolution of the elevation dial. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, just letting you know the option is out there. Carry on. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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168 gr smk were designed for optimun accuracy around 600 yds, and the 175s are more forgiving in terms of reloading error. the 168 are still above the speed of sound at 1000 yds -- still around 1.5 mach but usually have more yaw. from the following table your looking at about 29 moa so with a 20 moa base and the freedom you have in that scope you should get to 1000 yds, but at 100 yds there will be little sweet spot left. used a very conservative number for bc in this calculation
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Mike McDonald
Optics Journeyman Joined: September/01/2004 Status: Offline Points: 739 |
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Depending on your rifle 168 matchkings might be unstable past about 900-950 yards.
You haven't said what barrel length and manufacture, factory ammo or handloads so there's much supposition here.
175 smk at 270 fps @ 1000 asl are 35.25 moa average over a temp spectrum of + 40 to + 125f and station pressures of 28.45 to 29.85 Hg.
175 smk at 2600 are 36.75 moa average over the same temp/pressure spectrum.
190smk at 2650 is 34.25 average moa same same.
Altitude is in your favor. If you're in Seattle Washington it will require more elevation than you might have available.
If you're in Red Lodge Montana you'll need less.
More rifle/load info is needed to properly answer accurately.
Bottom line is that if you really are going to shoot 1000 yards anywhere but the internet you need more scope.
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tjtjwdad
Optics Journeyman Joined: December/11/2007 Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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Yep...
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