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Saw a Super Sniper made by Nikko Stirling

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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2009 at 20:32
I have never seen the Nikko Sniper scope you are referring to.  I have no idea whether it is a good scope or not, so I can not comment on that.
However, earlier in this thread someone said that they are made/inspected by Asia Optical. 
If that is the case than the SWFA Super Sniper (formerly Tasco Super Sniper) is a different scope since it is not made by Asia Optical.  That is a fact.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wcat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 11:45
Originally posted by RedRover RedRover wrote:

The Nikko Stirling ‘Sniper’ scopes (10X and 16X) came on the market in Australia, Britain, New Zealand (and probably a lot of other countries, too) in about 1996 or 97, a while after the Tasco ‘Super Sniper’ scopes came out.  I can’t remember the EXACT release dates of the two brands – I could probably find them if I tried hard enough, but they are not really significant. 

 

The ocular lens housing of the Tasco was fluted, while the Nikko was plain, and the brand markings were different – obviously – but apart from that, they were as alike as peas in a pod.  I understand that a scope looking physically identical to the Nikko ‘Sniper’ was sold in Britain under some other brand name which I cannot recall now.

 

In NZ, the Nikko scopes grabbed a much larger share of the market than the Tascos, and they became quite popular for ‘F’ class target shooting.  There are lots of them still in use here.  People who had used both the Tasco and the Nikko – including some very competent shooters – reckoned that performance-wise, there was absolutely nothing between them.  I have been using a couple of Nikko 16X jobs for some years now, and I have been happy with the performance of them.  The only person I know who has had trouble with one of them is a man who also seems to have frequent problems with his rifles, his ammo, his reloading gear, his cars – and so on, and so on.  Optically, the ‘Sniper’ scopes are certainly not equal to a Nightforce or a Leupold Mark 4, but at less than a quarter of the price, one could not really expect them to be …

 

It has been widely reported over the years that neither Tasco nor Nikko Stirling ever had factories of their own – their products were always made by others.  It would not surprise me in the least if both the Tasco ‘Super Sniper’ and Nikko ‘Sniper’ both came from the same plant in Japan.  Not long after Tasco brought out their TS series target scopes (fixed 24X44, 6-24X44, and 8-32X44) Nikko Stirling came out with their ‘Targetmaster’ series, which were physically identical, except for the markings on them, and both brands were marked as being made in Japan.  Same factory?  Seems quite likely.

 

About a year or two after Tasco went belly-up, both the Nikko ‘Sniper’ and ‘Targetmaster’ scopes became hard to obtain, new. (it may have been less than one year, or more than two – I never had any reason to establish an exact timeline) Rumour had it that production of them had ceased, and all that was left in the marketplace was what was on agents’ and dealers’ shelves.  That would be a strange coincidence if the two brands were actually being made by totally different companies.

           



Thanks a lot for these infos!  It actually measure up to what I could see since I (now) have the scope in my hands.
It concur too with other infos I could find on the 'net where the Nikko Sniper 10x42 was sold some years back.

Wcat


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 11:50

OK...... Here's the poop. I have tried to not say this as I have no experience with that scope. IT IS NOT the same as the Super Sniper. I can be almost 100% sure that it will not be as good as a Super Sniper. (Tasco or SWFA) Yes Tasco did get a bad reputation for a while, some of it was deserved. They did however make some very good scopes. The Super Sniper was one of them. This is exactly why SWFA purchased the rights for that scope. Too many people want to try and lump them in with other scopes that were made in Asia, whether it was Japan, the Phillipines or China.

I can not attest to the durability of those other scopes, which by the way are entirely too close in resemblance to suggest anything other than being a "copycat" They as Koshkin has pointed out are not made by the same people. I also have serious doubts that they are built to anywhere near the same standards as the Super Sniper.
 
If anyone here other than SWFA or Koshkin (because he is the optics guru here) were to have said that. I suspect (given the tone in this thread) the next question was going to be. "Yeah Well where are the Super Snipers made then?" That question was going to come up, I know it. That is a question which I will not answer. Not because I can't. More so because, this site is owned by SWFA, and I find it impolite to give away the origin, or manufacturer of their scope. 
 
Now RedRover, I was deliberately trying to avoid a flame war, which if you were to have done some searching for the answers, you would have found the truth about manufacture for the above mentioned scopes. You would have found that they are different. You would then have not had to hear it here, and thus be suspicious of the answer. It isn't a matter of superiority. More so, that if anyone were to give you the answer, you would not believe it. Your comments of "If any" and "Even if they are true" only reinforce that my suspicion is well founded.
 
I'll cut to the chase since you won't actually do the homework.
The SWFA and Tasco SuperSnipers are, and were very tough, and very well built scopes. They represent what is likely the very best value for the money spent. They are "Crazy Tough" and "Nothing else comes close." So yes, the simialarities are a direct attempt at "copy catting."
 
I'm not saying that the Nikko isn't a decent scope. It may well be. I will say though, that the attempt to mimick the SS by other companies is a testament to the fact that they recognize a superior product and are, or were trying to cash in on the success of another companies product. Also that by not trying to make theirs as different as was possible, there was no attempt on their part other than trying to cash in on anothers merits.
 
You probably won't like hearing it, but face it. The truth often hurts. I wanted to avoid being a part of that. Which is another reason for wanting you to research. But, given your adamant tone. I couldn't really care less.
 
Now...For the others..
 
This link is to a post which is an example as to why there so many questions, compared to facts.
 
This link is exactly why no one here is going to say "Where" It also tells exactly why there's a dispute due to a manufacturer making false claims. It comes from the host of this fine forum.
 
Now this is quite enough (factual) info, but feel free to research all you want. Just know that having half the story, or making assumptions isn't fact finding.
 
And RedRover...........Next time you feel the need to "Piss" on someones shoes............Drink more water first. Slap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wcat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 12:37
Some Pics (Everybody likes pics):


 
















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 14:23
thank you for the pics the gun is nice, but the scope is still a..... NIKKO sterling? I'm sure it will serve you well until you compare it with a real Super Sniper side by side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 14:32
It is a good looking set up. You like the Hogue stock?
I'm sure that the Nikko being Japanese made is atleast an OK scope. Hopefully it will serve you well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wcat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 15:52
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

It is a good looking set up. You like the Hogue stock?

Thanks, I'd say it's the best of the cheap stocks,  much better than the stock Rem SPS Varmint stock...for the same price.

Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:


I'm sure that the Nikko being Japanese made is atleast an OK scope. Hopefully it will serve you well.


Thanks


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dav619 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 05:45
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

I'm not saying that the Nikko isn't a decent scope. It may well be. I will say though, that the attempt to mimick the SS by other companies is a testament to the fact that they recognize a superior product and are, or were trying to cash in on the success of another companies product. Also that by not trying to make theirs as different as was possible, there was no attempt on their part other than trying to cash in on anothers merits.

 
It not a mimick or copy, simply that the 'product' was never exclusive to any one buyer. Ive listed 5 different buyers in my previous post that have marketed these over the years. Those are just the ones that I know of.
 
It still isn't exclusive to SWFA as Edgar Brother's have marketed the 'product' in the UK for years and they continue to do so today. Currently I think they only offer it in 10x42 side parallax (10x42M) form, but in the past I have owned a 20x42 from them also.
 
I'll stand by my ealier post.  Having used both a recent Edgar Brothers 10x42 and recent (SWFA sourced) Super Sniper 10x42M, side by side, I can confirm they are identical in the following departments: exterior finish and quality of, optical standard, weight.
 
Its totally possible that one buyer specifies a different inspection standard than they other buyer. Its also possible that one uses different materials and internals to the other, in this case though they did a great job to keep the weights exactly the same.
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedRover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 05:51

Cyborg:  The material in the links you have posted does absolutely NOTHING to  address my question of the differences – if any – between the Tasco Super Sniper and the Nikko Stirling Sniper.  Doesn’t even MENTION the latter!

 

If what is stated about the Tasco scopes in the article by David Fortier in TacticalGunFan is correct, it brings up some serious questions about them, even though the chronology is very vague. 

 

Quote: “Not a commercial product, it was originally developed for military use by Tasco in answer to a Request for Procurement made by the US Navy in the 1980s.”

 

So I guess that means that it could have been originally developed any time between 1980 and 1989.

 

Quote: “A few years went by and a small, family owned business that specialized in optics (SWFA Inc.) managed to buy a small quantity of these scopes on closeout. The scopes were an overrun from the Navy contract, and the price was excellent, so SWFA scooped them up and sold them on the US commercial market.”

 

A few years from when?  The above statements could mean it was anywhere from about the mid 1980s to the early to mid 1990s when SWFA were selling the original lot of ‘over-run’ scopes.   

 

Quote: “These early scopes garnered an excellent reputation and sold quickly, so SWFA approached Tasco about continuing production, but at the closeout price. A deal was struck and Tasco tooled up. Unfortunately, many of these later scopes weren't of the same quality as the earlier Navy overruns. The model soon earned a bad reputation, and Tasco eventually went out of business.”

 

Quote: “The scopes themselves are made in a small plant in Japan that specializes in high-end optical instruments. During negotiations, SWFA made it very clear that these new scopes had to be every bit the equal of the original Navy contract scopes.”

It’s not clear from this how many manufacturers have been involved in the production of the Tasco/SWFA scopes, from the original navy contract ones to the present. One? Two?  Three?

 

If Fortier is to be believed (and you, Cyborg, are holding his article up as an authoritative reference on the subject) then from somewhere between the mid 1980s and the mid 1990s, through to 2003 when the Tasco company went belly up, they were selling SS scopes of variable quality and with a generally poor reputation.

 

The Nikko Stirling Sniper scopes appeared on the market in the mid 1990s, and garnered a fairly good reputation amongst ‘F’ class target shooters in the British Commonwealth countries where they seem to have been sold in the greatest numbers. 

 

But to quote from some of your earlier posts:

 

Tasco had a few military contracts. I'm unsure if Nikko did or did not. I can also feel rather safe in the assumption that the two scopes while looking very simiialar are completely different inside component or material wise.

 

I have tried to not say this as I have no experience with that scope. IT IS NOT the same as the Super Sniper. I can be almost 100% sure that it will not be as good as a Super Sniper. (Tasco or SWFA)

 

The SWFA and Tasco SuperSnipers are, and were very tough, and very well built scopes. They represent what is likely the very best value for the money spent. They are "Crazy Tough" and "Nothing else comes close."

 

Just know that having half the story, or making assumptions isn't fact finding.

 

You should take this last one on board for yourself!!!!!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 09:57
And for all your effort this did or proved what for you. You are the one whom made it a pissing contest. and no one has gained any thing here.......GOODBYE...rover

Edited by rifle looney - February/15/2009 at 09:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 11:59
Neither the Tasco, nor the SWFA was or is made by HAKKO. The others are made by Asia Optical, and Hakko. The SS is not, nor was it made by them. It is and has been made by the same company and in the same plant then as it is now. This comes directly from the very person that now owns the brand. They were the first, so anything else is a "copy cat"
 
I'm not going to say that a "copy cat" won't also be a good scope. As I have said before, they may well be. I am saying though that the first introduction of the SS was a great scope. I am also saying that the present production is even better than the originals were.
 
Why so many want to claim that something else is built in the same plant as the SS, when it comes from the owners that they are not, is totally beyond me.
 
Even if they were, they still would not be the same scopes. It is clear that Barska and Zeiss aren't made in the same plant. But for arguments sake say that they were, would that then make Barska Zeiss equal? The answer would be a resounding NO. Why would that be? Because Zeiss would make damned sure that the proprietary elements used for the construction of their scopes was protected. This is what SMART comapnies do to protect their share of the market. The point is MOOT but none the less a valid point, as you seem to think that an argument for them being from the same plant would then make them the equal, regardless of the fact that they are not from the same plant.
 
What are you trying to push across as fact? Better yet, why? There is nothing to be gained in doing so. You want to dismiss everything presented to you, but offer only speculation. What I posted are only a very small fragment of what can easily be found, you have to READ and COMPREHEND what has been posted in a number of places. Then you must take that which is factual and use it to dismiss what isn't. Most of what is out there is purely speculation, and has no authenticity. You don't care about any of that though, you are looking for a pissing contest. Despite your claims of having no interest in my urinary system.
(That's a funny line by the way, atleast I thought so anyway Excellent)
Just what exactly is your interest in my "urinary system" outside of the fact that mine does work very well. Your stream seems a tad bit weak. Drink plenty of fluids, and come back in a few days with real honest facts and not specualtive conjecture based on time lines and assumptions.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 12:17
dav619...... First welcome to Optics Talk. Second, It is from Chris Farris himself that the SWFA SS is and has been made in the same plant as was in it's conception. To continue suggesting anything else to try and garner weight for other products is calling him a liar. This site is owned and operated by SWFA. Chris is a close and dear friend of mine. I will not, nor will anyone else simply allow such adamant speculation to continue here. If you wish to continue in your assumptive demands. You may feel free to do so else where. I won't allow it to continue here. RedRover this goes for you as well. 
 
 


Edited by cyborg - February/15/2009 at 12:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dav619 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 16:56
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

dav619...... First welcome to Optics Talk. Second, It is from Chris Farris himself that the SWFA SS is and has been made in the same plant as was in it's conception. To continue suggesting anything else to try and garner weight for other products is calling him a liar. This site is owned and operated by SWFA. Chris is a close and dear friend of mine. I will not, nor will anyone else simply allow such adamant speculation to continue here. If you wish to continue in your assumptive demands. You may feel free to do so else where. I won't allow it to continue here. RedRover this goes for you as well. 
 
 
 
I havent called anybody a liar.
 
I am aware of who operates this forum.
 
This is clearly not speculation, even so much as a quick google of the brand names I have mentioned will more than validate this.
 
I think a documented side by side comparision (with pics) might be in order.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:17
A quick google does as anyone wants based on conjecture, and opinions of the ones that write what you find. Read the link that goes to this forum, and what Chris Farris has said.
Again he is the ONE that knows. It is also known that the SS is not made by Hakko, nor is it made by Asis Optical as the others are. It is also known that there are Marketers out there trying to insist that the SS is made by the same as the product that they are trying to sell.
Since it is the stance of this forums host, that these calims are illegitimate. Then any claim to the contrary is the same as calling them liars.
 
And yes, these claims ARE speculation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:19
Gentlemen, let's cool things down a touch.

I will not address which scope is better or worse since I have not seen them all.

Here are a few things that are coming off as fact: Nikko Sniper scope is made by Asia Optical, right?  That virtually guarantees that it is not made by the same people as the Super Sniper.

This Edgar Brothers scope you refer to, where is it made?  All accounts that I have seen indicate that ti was made by Hakko (Hakko did indeed make a Super Sniper look alike scope for some time).

As for the Lynx 10x42, the current version clearly has no relation to the Super Sniper.  I am pretty sure they marketed a SUper SNiper look alike scope, but I do not know who made it.

Here is the one thing I know with a great deal of certainty: Tasco/SWFA was never made by either Hakko (now called Japan Optic Limited, by the way) or Asia Optical.

If the scopes you refer to, were made by either Hakko or Asia Optical, then Super Sniper is NOT the same scope.

ILya

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:19
I once came across a SS made by Chevrolet ....traded it for a Gateway branded one??????......WTF........ this is stupid.Loco put it too rest.                please!       

Edited by rifle looney - February/15/2009 at 17:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:29
Ilya..........You and I know.........But regardless of what we continue to preach, they will not get it, and they have no desire to truly hunt facts. I suspect that they want to know where the SS is made. Chris has mentioned that he wants that to remain proprietary info. We do know according to the inspection sticker on the SS, and that it isn't where these others are being made.
 
I am unclear as to why they want to insist that they are the same scopes when it is truly not the case. As such I am very suspicious as to their motives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dav619 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 17:48
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


This Edgar Brothers scope you refer to, where is it made?  All accounts that I have seen indicate that ti was made by Hakko (Hakko did indeed make a Super Sniper look alike scope for some time).

As for the Lynx 10x42, the current version clearly has no relation to the Super Sniper.  I am pretty sure they marketed a SUper SNiper look alike scope, but I do not know who made it.

 
The inspection sticker on the EB Sniper 10x42 states Kenko Optics Japan.
 
The original Lynx 10x42 mirrors the EB.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moosetrax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 20:50

I say if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's probably a chicken in a costume and the only way you'll ever know is to kill it. My 16x duck came from SWFA and from what I know, there are alot of turrets that look like them, eye pieces focus + and -  most are even numbered the same, you know 1 to 14. Yes, I can see the argument that they might all be the same...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moosetrax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 20:58
Maybe they really are super snipers. I wrote my name on another kids science project once and said I made it.
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