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Wind Meters |
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rifle looney
Optics Master Joined: November/21/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2553 |
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What you write is Great and all has it's good points. Not trying to make an argument I just see to many people trying to take long shots with out the skill or the knowledge, they just think if they buy all the goodies that they are good to go. And when a question is asked I think it better to get an understanding of one intentions and or his /her ability before just giving an answer. That way they are more prone to think about what they are doing or going to attempt to do. and as for the camo = no, stand = no, blind = no. earth tone clothing yes ,method= spot and stalk or sit on a hill side and wait,walk the coolies, ditches, ravines. I like to see the country not let it just go by, plus sometimes you find neat stuff! thats how Ilike hunt.
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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You and I hunt in much the same way. I do wear camo, but I do a LOT of walking, some sitting and almost never in a stand. I "stand" hunted more this year than any other (which means more than once), but I did not join a club this year and only had my 55 acres to hunt on. Houses in the area and very thick briars just make it too tough to stalk. Very few places I can walk around without facing a populated area. There is a school ground on one side and would be within easy rifle range. I can never face that direction.
I fully agree with you, James. There are too many "hunters" out there who think they have the skill to make long shots (just because they have the gear) when they probably should not be making ANY shots. I can't control them, I just try to stay away from them. There is a guy who was a fair friend who won't much speak to me anymore... he wanted to hunt on my land, but is always telling stories about the deer he shoots that run off and he can't find them or that he completely misses and talks about how after all this time he can't keep from shaking "like crazy" any time he starts to take a shot. I told him he can't hunt on my land. He's mad at me. I think I probably saved a couple of creatures a miserable death. Hunting, to me, is about getting to a point where the shot is a "given", only way you can miss is if the bullet doesn't come out of the barrel. Doesn't mean that under the right circumstances I would not take a "long" shot at a deer or other game animal, I have just never had the need.
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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drd34
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/10/2009 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 130 |
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Just as a sideline...I've played so much golf that I could probably tell you to within 5 yds how far a target is within a 350 yd range. With that being said, hitting a golf ball into the wind has alot more effect than a bullet at the same range. You don't see Tiger pulling out a wind meter do you? No, because do you know why? The wind where you're at is not the same as the wind where the target is at. It's swirling, and gusting, it could be 90 degrees dead cross, or at any angle in between. Nature isn't constant. You look at all the trees, bushes, anf grasses in between you and the target and make a "best" guess. Even the gound wind is different than the winf 10 feet above it. The picture of all the wind flags is ludicrous to common sense. With time and situations you learn what you feel is gonna be right. Don't depend upon contraptions to rule your world. Throw some dust in the air, lick your thumb and prime your front sight (just like Jed Clampett) and shoot flies at 100yds. Just my take. We don't need any more "gizmos"....just common sense and experience. And, of course...a little luck. Lee Trevino (a famous pro golfer) once said: "The more you practice, the luckier you get." After hundreds or thousands of shots, you'll get the idea.
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You gotta carry it.
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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That's why we learn to read mirage and all the other wind indicators downrange. However, having an advantage at the "beginning" stage of the shot won't hurt. After thousands of shots maybe you'll get the idea.
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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I just spent 4 days using my Kestrel 4500 in a Precision rifle class. While it does only give you the wind at your location you can use that reading to judge the wind at other distances as well. If the wind is blowing 10 mph at your location, you can look at how the vegetation and dirt is blowing at your location and then look down range and see if it is similar. Doing that actually helped me a lot. It is definitely not the end all option but like kickboxer said it gives you a place to start.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
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G Kurtz
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/02/2011 Location: High Asia Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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I agree with the guys here a good wind meter (and baro-altimeter / thermometer) is a nice toy to add in the armory for long range shooting (say, from 300 meters >) and it is good mainly to log on all data in practice. Then is true also than in real situation it happens frequently NOT to use this thing, especially of course if U don't have so much time etc. However all the practice one has done, measuring data and logging, and then reading the wind, taking care of the air density (in high mountain / thin air, this is really relevant!) and so on then all this comes out and one can do a better mental fast estimation of all these factors
There was a question regarding the effect of the direction of the wind. Of course it is critical, and there are tables giving quite prezise azimuthal corrections according to the angle of incidence (per wind speed and tipe of bullet/ammo) These can be used with ballistic calculators
If U don't have it, or there is no time to make calculations: simplified rule of thumb like this
a) estimate windspeed (i.e. wind at 90º) in mph
< 3 smoke is deviated
3-5 feel on the skin
6-8 move leaves
9-12 raise dust and papers
12-15 can bend some branch and little trees
(another simplifiied system, with angles of mirages, I've explained here in this blog elsewhere)
b) estimate wind direction relative to trajectory and give MOA azimuth correction
wind direction h3-9: mph x 1 / 15 = MOA
wind direction h 2-4 8-10: mph x 0.75 / 15 = MOA (x 0.75 is easy mentally if U do x3 and then /4)
wind direction h 1-5 7-11: mph x 0.25 / 15 = MOA (x 0.75 is easy mentally if U do /4)
wind direction h 0-12: mph x 0 (NO azimuth correction)
it looks cumbersome buth with practice it becomes automatik
K
PS: Ahh .. wind > 15-20mph + real long range (>600) = maybe better to resort to some type of guided missile. e.g the MILAN etc. ... little expensive, however. Think well!
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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I use my Kestrel 4500 allot.
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G Kurtz
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/02/2011 Location: High Asia Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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Have to add that the MOA U calculated with (b) in my previous are "at point zero" then U have also to correct for distance, in hm (hectometers = 100m) Maybe example: distance 600 m (6 hectometers) wind 8 mph from h10 MOA = 6x8x0.75/15 = (3/4 of 48) /15 = 36/15 = a little less than 2.5 MOA (10clicks) Ur "zero" will be deviated right, the POI will be 14-15 inches to the right at 600m N: to simplify mental calculation one can also avoid the 30º and 60º incidence angles (x 0.25 and x 0.75 …) and consider “all in between” at 45º (x0.5 correction) then adding “a little more or little less” AA this stuff is for a point zero set at 100m and with a "normal" ammo (7.62NATO BT168g Vo2500fps). Then if U want to play with this better doing: a) comparison with ballistic chart and theorical calculation for ur weapon/ammo combo b) lot of test in the field In real also good thinking to avoid that shot in wind IF feasible; maybe u stay concealed, wait a little, the wind stop for a moment ... K PS Ehy all this is quite old stuff, I’m sure many of U already know |
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Stevey Ducks
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/03/2011 Status: Offline Points: 266 |
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Wind what's that?
I am a casual civilian rifle shooter/hunter and am aware that factors such as time of flight and that variable wind velocities and directions exist. I use the Sierra ballistic program to make tables with the particular bullet that I am using and showing MOA corrections for both drop and wind at different speeds and directions. For target angles (cosine calculation) multiply elevation moa by .9 for angles around 25 deg. Sometimes when planning a varmint hunt at a certain location I can make up a real good table from more than one table for that place and time. My maximum range for deer hunting is 400 yds because beyond that the time of flight is a big factor in scoring a hit as the target can move far enough suddenly so a gut shot can happen. With my .308 shooting a 155 gr. AMax @ 2850 the wind drift is about 1 foot at 400 yds with a 3 or 9 direction. Often when shooting rock chucks way out there in excess of 600 yds over uncut alfafa fields you can see the wind swirl around and even make changes of 90 degrees or more and if it is breezy all those nice tables get peeled off the rifle. My 123gr .264 AMaxes at 3050 fps get deflected almost 2 feet (3.4 MOA) at 600 yds with a 10 mph wind @ 3 or 9. |
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Stevey Ducks
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/03/2011 Status: Offline Points: 266 |
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Might add that the "15" value that G Kurtz provides, gives real close results compared to those provided by the Sierra ballistics program. Using the Sierra program other values for different bullets at different velocities can be calculated. I found the Sierra program to be reasonably accurate using drop tests at 400 yds and a chronograph and when it is not I have changed the published B.C. and used that in the program - possibly bullet makers inflate B.C.'s to sell more bullets. For many years I have shot .308 168gr MK's at 600 yds at about 2500 fps and this calculation appears to be right on.
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