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dougedwards
Optics Apprentice Joined: April/16/2008 Location: Williamsburg, v Status: Offline Points: 213 |
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Posted: January/16/2009 at 10:00 |
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Just wondering about opinions on the best coating treatment for a rough chrome moly rifle barrel other than standard bluing. The rifle will be used for mostly hunting situations and some 300-500 yard target shooting. Teflon? Gun Kote? Duracoat? Advantages and drawbacks to respective treatments and coatings?
Doug
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but you brethren are not of the flesh but of the spirit if indeed the spirit of Christ dwells within you...Romans 8
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silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
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If it is rough, then just parkerize it.
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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
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dougedwards
Optics Apprentice Joined: April/16/2008 Location: Williamsburg, v Status: Offline Points: 213 |
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Some would describe the condition of what I have termed "rough" as "white". It will be a SAE4150 steel barrel that will be in need of corrosive protection. It also is fluted. I originally planned to parkerize then Gun Kote as this barrel will be a big part of the only custom rifle I have ever had built and I don't particularly like the appearance of parkerized metal. I would like the hardest and toughest protection as the flutes will provide an edge that might be prone to scratching. Doug
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but you brethren are not of the flesh but of the spirit if indeed the spirit of Christ dwells within you...Romans 8
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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Simple, Black-T.
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dougedwards
Optics Apprentice Joined: April/16/2008 Location: Williamsburg, v Status: Offline Points: 213 |
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Not too many opinions expressed on this subject I see. Maybe I will ask another question. Does anyone have any opinions on the scratch resistant qualities of rust blueing. Also are scratches easily repaired or does the whole barrel require re-blueing to make the scratch repair appear uniform with the rest of the barrel?
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but you brethren are not of the flesh but of the spirit if indeed the spirit of Christ dwells within you...Romans 8
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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I prefer parkerized, and I like the camo dipped as well. Now for a truly beautiful rifle, a well polished bluing is the thing. bluing can be touched up easily enough, with practice, and trial and error. There are several products available to make doing so easier.
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An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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As far as durability goes, I don't think any current "spray and bake" finish can match the wear resistance of Cerakote. I have 2 rifles done in Cerakote and I can tell you it is extremely scratch resistant, and it looks good too, with many different colors available. Here is a rifle I had finished in Titanium Blue Cerakote:
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Another with the action done in SOCOM Blue and Titanium Cerakote can be seen on pg 2 of this thread:
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11998&KW=ultra+coatings&PN=2 Edited by RifleDude - January/20/2009 at 22:21 |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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Ted, did you have the entire bolt finished as well?
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Not on the first rifle above, no. On the carbon barreled SOCOM BLUE / Titanium CK finished rifle in the link above, yes. I have cycled about 200 rounds through it so far after the Cerakote was applied, and the finish hasn't rubbed off the bolt anywhere yet.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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The only negative remark I have heard is that if you have a bolt gun that is somewhat tight, Cerakote is not the slickest think out there. I don't know this first hand which is why I asked.
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Not sure about that. Since that rifle is a modified 700, bolt to action i.d. clearance isn't super tight. It works well for my purposes. FWIW, the stuff is supposed to be self-lubricating. BTW this is off-topic, but since I bought a new computer, I can't figure out how to hotlink with this new computer (Mac OS), so links like the one above have to be copied and pasted in the address bar. If anyone has some advice on how to hotlink with a Mac, send me a PM. Thanks!
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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dougedwards
Optics Apprentice Joined: April/16/2008 Location: Williamsburg, v Status: Offline Points: 213 |
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Very sharp looking rifle! Just wondering how the barrel was prepared for the Cerekote application. Do you think it would be worth the time and money to parkerize the barrel before the Cerekote is applied?
Doug
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but you brethren are not of the flesh but of the spirit if indeed the spirit of Christ dwells within you...Romans 8
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8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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Try this:
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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No, it wouldn't be worth the time and money to do anything prior to Cerakote application. The metal to be finished is fine grit blasted prior to application, and whoever applies the finish will do the metal prep as part of the finish process. Keep in mind that regardless of color chosen, Cerakote is always a matte finish.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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John Barsness
Optics Optimist Joined: January/27/2009 Status: Offline Points: 785 |
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I would like to second RifleDude's regard for Cerakote. I have had several rifles done in it now, and it looks good, is pretty tough, and in my experience does tend to slick-up an action.
Wih hard use it will wear through a little bit, around the corners and other places blueing tends to wear. But it holds up a lot better than either hot or rust blue, and better than most other modern finishes. The only thing I've tried that's tougher is titanium nitride coating, but that has other problems, notably that if applied a little too thickly it makes an action very tough to work, and it does NOT slicken up with use very easily, unlike Cerakote.
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Titanium nitride is indeed more wear resistant than Cerakote. It is the coating used on Desert Eagle pistols, as well as cutting tools used for machining. It's over 65 Rc hardness. Remington's Trynite finish on their XCR rifle is a similar finish. The other issues with titanium nitride is there are fewer companies that can apply it to firearms since it is a vapor deposition process that requires expensive equipment, and it's expensive to have done.
Another finish option that has similar wear properties to TiN is Armoloy, which is a hard industrial chromium finish. It has a matte grey appearance. The main issue with it is to my knowledge, it's only available in one color -- grey.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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silver
Optics Master Joined: November/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2291 |
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Ti-ni needs to be plated under vacuum. To do it in a small lot is not cost effective. To do it in a large lot means that quality control is difficult, it is hard to get even coverage. That is why Robar does not do Ti, as per Robbie Barkman. Why not just hard chrome the thing??? It will look like stainless. Get the barrel laped and then hard chrome the gun. With most barrels you will not notice the groups opening up very much, but it will double the life of the barrel. That is why you see it in things like machinegun barrels. That gets you protection inside and outside the gun.
We go back to my orginal advice and just parkerize the gun. That gets the inside of the gun protected too. It also preps the outside of the gun for whatever coating you want.
You can just paint the thing... Call up Robar or Armaloy!!! Robar does NP3 and Roguard which are good products. I have guns with both coatings, they are good, but not not perfect. They will wear. The guy at Armaloy has been great when I've had questions. If it is not hard chrome, it will show wear. Hard chrome will show wear if you use it enough.
Ford's was doing some black chrome. When I talked to Robbie years ago he said that he had problems when they tried. Thus they do not offer it. His summary was it not bright and shiny with will show wear.
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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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so you guys are telling me that the price tag on the m700xcr is justified then?? i kinda wondered why they were so expensive i understand now.
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