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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger
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Old Glory
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Posted: December/20/2008 at 05:43 |
Thank you that is the kind of information I am looking for. I am really new to this and will be working my way out to the 600-800 range. In reality most of my shooting will be 100-300 yards since that is what the range offers. I am just starting my search and trying to figure out what would be best in my situation.
Thanks again!
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silver
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Posted: December/20/2008 at 09:11 |
There is some very interesting stuff made by IOR. They have some fixed 6x with .223 reticles. Then there are low power cqb stuff and a fixed 16.
Meopta has a darn good 7.5x56 fixed. Super Sniper's fixed 10 or 16 will make for a good range scope.
When you get off the range the lower powered stuff gets a lot more user friendly. IOR's fixed 6 or the Meopta make for a nice all around varmit and low light hunting stuff. The 10 x and above stuff get unwieldy in the woods.
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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane." Jimmie Buffet
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Sparky
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Posted: December/20/2008 at 12:31 |
I would be looking at a scope with a lot of E adjustment. I do not like using a riser block/rail since it raises the scope and I prefer the scope as close to the bore as possible. A Nightforce 2.5-10 (100 MOA E) or their 3.5-15 (110 MOA E) with a NPR2 reticle would be my choice. And if that is too much money for now the Super Sniper is an excellent choice and save for the Nightforce.
Also what Urimaginaryfrnd said about 600yds being reallistic is also probably using a 24 inch barrel and not the 20 inch your S&W PC has. So even 600 would be a streach.
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Urimaginaryfrnd
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Posted: December/20/2008 at 19:43 |
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/ It can be done with a 26 in for sure, and I am pretty sure a White Oak 20 in SDM barreled upper will be fairly accurate at 600 and the 18 in SPR barrel upper should get to 600 as well - ( not as tight as this match upper but useable), this guys uppers win matches.
Hello John,
This year at the NRA High Power Rifle Championships at Camp Perry I used your White Oak Armament .223 Match Rifle Upper.
I was amazed with the performance and accuracy. I placed High Junior in both the Army Cup Match with a 198-11x, and Air Force Cup Match with a 200-7x. Both these matches were 600 yd slow fire. The one match I fired that really stands out was the Appreciation Cup Match, 200 yd rapid fire, which I won with a 200-15x. My first ten shot string was a 100-6x, followed by a 100-9x on my second ten shot string. The group sizes were outstanding!! The majority of shots from each string were within an inch
I have attached some photos for you.
Your upper shot well above my expectations. Thank you for building an excellent product.
Sincerely,
Ryan Castonguay
Connecticut Junior High Power Rifle Team
· Barrel twist 1-8, length 26"
· Headspace controlled to no more than .001 over SAAMI minimum.
· Wylde chamber
· Top quality components used throughout
· Sights and sight bases available separately
· Available with your choice of 2" or 2.25" Float Tube
· Forends available anodized in several choices of color.
Note: All colors may not be available at all times.
· Barrel diameter 1" under handguard, .825 ahead of gas manifold, .75 for the last 1.5"
· Gas port moved forward 2" from standard location for proper functioning with
the slow burning powders and heavy bullets used in HP competition.
This reduces stress on the brass, as well as the longer forend giving
the rifle a much more balanced look.
Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - December/20/2008 at 19:55
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger
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Old Glory
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Posted: December/21/2008 at 10:00 |
That's nice shooting.
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TominCA
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Posted: December/23/2008 at 11:31 |
I also have 2 AR's, one with a 20" heavy barrel (Fulton) and the other with a 16" barrel (Spikes) and I faced the same decision - one rifle should be a walking tack driver and one set up as an urban combat rifle. I should add here that I am an occasional hunter and informal target shooter and have absolutely no chance of ever needing an "urban combat" rifle. This means that money is an issue and the rifles will never really see field conditions.
I chose a Ziess Conquest in 2.5 to 8X for the Fulton (I like open field low ends) but would have gotten a US Optics if I had the money. For the 16" Spikes I ended up with an EoTech (GREAT rapid target acquisition) with a 3X magnifier. The 3X works and really helps with target identification but I think its a bit over priced for the amount of improvement it gives. The 3 X makes the Spikes 16" about a 200 yard package but not 300 yards.
My buddy has a 4X Acog - its is accurate but not all that good for fast target acquisition. I also have an Aimpoint with a 2 moa dot. Almost as fast as the EoTech but not very good for accuracy.
My reply has probably only given more confusion to your problem - but at least ist some input!
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Tom in CA
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Old Glory
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Posted: December/24/2008 at 22:01 |
tom -
Thanks that is exactly where I am at. I have been looking around and another option that came up was the Schmidt & Bender Short Dot. Supposed to be the best of both worlds.
I want an intermediate scope for the Fulton carbine and a precision scope for the S&W. So far leaning toward the ACOG and dreaming of a Night Force for the 20 inch S&W.
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Old Glory
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Posted: December/24/2008 at 22:10 |
Another question. For CQB how much is instinctual rather than sighting in. If you are in your house and need to defend yourself you will be within 10 yards of the bad guy. Do people train to shoot from the hip? Seems like you would just point and shoot and all this precision stuff is just for the range or for outside of 25 yards outside of the house.
While it seems cool to sneak and peak with a hopped up carbine isn't home defense better served with a shotgun?
Granted in a SHTF zombie terrorist situation an AR is your best friend but for a home invasion buckshot clears the room. Am I wrong?
(just trying to justify the ACOAG over a Red Dot system)
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koshkin
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Posted: December/25/2008 at 00:44 |
For the M&P, I would probably go for this scope: http://www.swfa.com/pc-10157-292-ior-25-10x42-tactical-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx10x is plenty magnification for 600 yards, and this particular scope has a nice MP-8 FFP reticle that is good for both ranging and holdover. Price-wise, it is easily within your price range. For the Fulton, some sort of an ACOG is probably the way to go. I would take a good look at the 3x30 version. Otherwise, you can look at a low range variable of some sort. The cheapest good one is Bushnell Elite 4200 1.25-4x24. Moving on up in price there is the Meopta 1-4x22 and for a bit more money IOR 1.1-4x26. Meopta is a bit faster at CQ distance, while IOR is a bit more versatile at longer range. ILya
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Jon A
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Posted: December/25/2008 at 16:08 |
Old Glory wrote:
Is it possible to have sight that
allows precision shooting out to 300 yards and CQ shooting? Again it
will be used at the range and in the woods.
Will an ACOG allow for this type of shooting? Can you shoot tight groups at 300 yards or is it just used to hit silhouettes?
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Yes, you can. MOA groups at 300 with a 4X ACOG are no problem if your carbine is accurate enough. I've found it very good for all around use--right up to the very closest stuff. For that, have you considered a solution such as this? http://www.swfa.com/pc-9695-225-trijicon-4x32-acog-rifle-scope.aspxIf you do CQB all day, every day, there are better choices for sure but if it's more of an occasional thing it can get the job done while giving you more precision at longer ranges. A short dot would be great, but they aren't cheap either. Actually if you're looking for a good deal I have a used ACOG like the one above available that would save you a couple hundred.
Edited by Jon A - December/25/2008 at 16:09
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